ontheball2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I guess my topic might embarrass some Managers/Coaches/Physio's, but think it quite appropriate. Simply, what qualifications does someone require to manage, coach or be a physio within the Calsberg South West Peninsula Leagues? There is quite often talk of change of managers at clubs, but can just anyone take the role? Also, should a Physio/First Aider be trusted with the "wellbeing" of a player, even if they are not qualified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravo Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 HIGHER M8, AS FAR I AM AWARE IT JUST YOUR LEVEL 1 COACHING BADGE,THATS ALL I HAVE, BUT A GREAT QUESTION, SOME CLUBS PUT YOU THREW IT WHEN YOUR AT THE CLUB,HOPE THAT HELPS IF CORRECT. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Well if you are correct RAVO, perhaps it is now time for the Calsberg South West Peninsula league to address the situation. I am led to believe that a Level 1 is the minimum requirement to coach in the Wrigleys DJM League, so surely a higher qualification is required within the Senior leagues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Wouldn't need a qualification to be a manager. Wouldn't need a qualification to coach a mens team either!!! you only need qualifications for Junior Football because you get CRB checked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravo Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 THATS WHAT I THOUGHT ST DARREN. THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP, DONT THINK I WOULD OF SLEPT 2NIT.Lol :yahoo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Wouldn't need a qualification to be a manager. Wouldn't need a qualification to coach a mens team either!!! you only need qualifications for Junior Football because you get CRB checked I truly think you are incorrect with your assumption. Within the Wrigleys DJM League, A Level 1 qualification is a requirement to manage/coach. A CRB check is also required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravo Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Wouldn't need a qualification to be a manager. Wouldn't need a qualification to coach a mens team either!!! you only need qualifications for Junior Football because you get CRB checked I truly think you are incorrect with your assumption. Within the Wrigleys DJM League, A Level 1 qualification is a requirement to manage/coach. A CRB check is also required. I AM SURE THAT IS CORRECT,I KNOW A COUPLE MANAGERS THAT HAVE NOT GOT COACHING BADGE,BUT LIKE I SAID THE CLUB PUT THEM IN AFTER THAY GOT THE JOB. BE GOOD TO KNOW FOR SURE THO. I AGREE WITH ST DARREN THO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettle Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I'm not aware that there is any qualification level requirement to be a manager/coach or physio in the SWPL, or any other league locally, even the DJM. (I may be wrong as not been a manager in the DJM for over 15 years now!) Yes, you need to have a CRB Check done, but you can do that in various different ways, not only by getting a Level 1. The FA are keen to have all clubs working towards "Charter Standard" though and this does require clubs to have qualified coaches and first aid trained people at the matches and training, aswell as other minimum operating standards in place. I know quite a few managers in the SWPL don't have any qualifications and a few that are very well qualified, some are near the top of the league and some are not, so outside of the "raising standards" and equity agenda, I'm nbto sure what difference that makes. If you have a qualified coach through the FA, then you have someone who can deliver training sessions to a certain level and unless they have wider experience, robotic ways of teaching people to play robotic "english" football, with no imagination or flair, in my opinion. I don't think you can call yourself a physio, unless you have unertaken a suitable course of study to post graduate level, but running on to the pitch with the magic spray and a drink needs no other qualifications anyway. Having someone trained in emergency first aid at the games is best practice and all clubs should ensure this - I reckon in certain comps (poss FA Cup) you are duty bound to have someone qualified present, I could be wrong...) Other than that, clubs can choose whoever they like to manage their team. Maybe that shouldn't be the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks for your contribution Stuart. Wouldn't having Managers/Coaches qualified to a reasonable level enhance the local game? As far as the Physio is concerned, doesn't the position warrant more than the ability to apply the "magic spray" and a drink? Is that really safe? There are numerous injuries that require urgent attention, so knowledge can be a matter of life or death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 what age group is the DJM league? is it just Juniors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravo Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 couldnt put it better myself MR Dudley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garf Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Do coaches with the right qualifications make good managers though? Mother's would make excellant managers as they would have the patience to put up with some of the wimpy excuses you get from player's on a friday night/ saturday morning. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldasitgets Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I don't think you can call yourself a physio, unless you have unertaken a suitable course of study to post graduate level, but running on to the pitch with the magic spray and a drink needs no other qualifications anyway. Having someone trained in emergency first aid at the games is best practice and all clubs should ensure this - I reckon in certain comps (poss FA Cup) you are duty bound to have someone qualified present, I could be wrong...) “Physiotherapist” is now a protected title and only physiotherapists registered with the Health Professions Council (HPC) may use the title Physiotherapist. The HPC has now replaced the state registered physiotherapist. The "magic sprays" should be banned from all grounds. There is no injury I can think of where they are appropriate for someone who intends to carry on playing. The "Cold spray" temporarily slows down bruising but,if the player carries on with activity, the body compensates by increasing the blood flow to the cold bit, making any bruising worse. The "hot" spray increases blood flow and makes any bruising worse. I think anyone using a spray during a match should be sued for assault as they are likely to cause a severe injury. But, it looks cool and makes the club trainer feel important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Surely the ability to improve players and the game as a whole would only benefit the game. You only have to watch the likes of Dave Leonard at Plymouth Parkway, to realise the qualities of a good Manager/Coach. Unfortunately, there are too few Managers/Coaches with the same qualifications and this is born out in some of the teams within the Calsberg South West Peninsula League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettle Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks for your contribution Stuart. Wouldn't having Managers/Coaches qualified to a reasonable level enhance the local game? A fair presumption, hence why the FA are keen to promote thier "Charter Standard" ...or, a manager could have no qualifications, but loads of money, get all the best players to play for him and win the league! Some play for the money, some pay for the glory and some do it for the love! Me, I do it voluntarily for the love and I have qualifications too, not that you'd notice on a saturday compared to some others though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggy Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks for your contribution Stuart. Wouldn't having Managers/Coaches qualified to a reasonable level enhance the local game? A fair presumption, hence why the FA are keen to promote thier "Charter Standard" ...or, a manager could have no qualifications, but loads of money, get all the best players to play for him and win the league! Some play for the money, some pay for the glory and some do it for the love! Me, I do it voluntarily for the love and I have qualifications too, not that you'd notice on a saturday compared to some others though! It's who ever moans at the ref the loadest mate , you know that . I've got G.C.S.E'S COMING OUT OF MY EARS . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettle Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 It's who ever moans at the ref the loadest mate , you know that . I've got G.C.S.E'S COMING OUT OF MY EARS . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think the term physiotherapist/physio is now a protected title to prevent people who have done 'a few sports injury courses' advertising themselves as a physiotherapist or sports physiotherapist etc.. and misleading the public. So 'officially' the individual who 'runs on the pitch' should not be named in match day programme as a physio unless they have a degree in physiotherapy (which is extemeley fussy i know), they should be termed as a first aider or trainer apparently!!! Thought it is clubs responsibility to have a trained emergency first aider on site in case of emergency, i know the FA run regular courses in emergency first aid especially during pre-season for about £10, but not sure if it is well publisised - ohh and i think you get a certificate too!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Professor Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think the most relevant point made so far is Stuart's regarding 'the robotic nature' of coaches sometimes produced as a result of coaching courses. Although a generalisation, there is a bit of truth in there. I'm a product of such a system, so much so that I now tutor on FA courses! However, my message to any candidate on an FA course I'm running is that gaining the qualification should be the START of their learning - not the end. Attending a course should stimulate further learning, and allow coaches to become students of the game - always looking to further enhance, edit, or adapt anything that they picked up on the course so that they can use their knowledge in different environments and coaching contexts. Additionally, being open to new ideas and trying things in training to keep the players interested and therefore constantly learning new things. Too few managers can successfully do this; especially at the top end of the game, let alone at SWP league level. For what its worth, I think that managers at SWP level SHOULD undertake some sort of formal qualification. Anything to help managers actually coach, and therefore improve players. Getting away from the thinking that extra cash or simply shouting and bawling at players will make them better needs to be changed. It doesn't raise standards and that is what we should be all about - whatever our level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy K Aggiemaid Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 There are many courses available for coaching at lots of different levels - if you check out the CCFA Website you will see the next lot of courses advertised and you can even book them on line! First Aid is part of your Level 1 coaching course - or you can book on one separately at £15 - the next one is on the Tuesday 13th April - its a basic course aiming to give those qualified ability to Preserve Life, Limit the Effect of Injury & Promote Recovery - it won't make you ecxperts but it will help you deal with situations until the experts get there. It gives you a certificate that lasts for 3 years. FA CRB's are not part of any coaching course but are part of coaching - required for anyone who has regular care and control of children within football - managers/coaches etc - last for 3 years costs £12. People involved in youth football need one - a child is someone under 18 years so that means coaches in open age football with 16 & 17 years of age should be looking to Safeguard them. Safeguarding Children Courses - what a great course for all coaches - again it is part of the Level 1 Coaching Course but its also available as a stand-alone course - £20 on Monday 12th April at Camborne and Monday 19th April at Bodmin. It gives you a certificate that's valid for 3 years. There are Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 and Age Appropriate Coaching Courses available via the CCFA website or give Sarah Mageean a call at the office on 01208 269010 for more details. Coaching courses won't necessarily make good coaches but they are good courses that will build on the knowledge you already have, give you new ideas...etc....First Aid and Safeguarding are things we should all as managers/coaches etc make ourselves aware of. Within youth football the FA do stipulate qualifications needed including FA CRB's and Safeguarding - I personally think it would be great to see more coaches qualified in all aspects of coaching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettle Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hey Professor, what's with the pic of Jose - surely you ought to have Fergie on there! Loving your work RT, good point about the beginning of the process to be a good coach, it's not just about having the piece of paper - Mr Soper would be proud of you! Remember the Tutor Course...how did you know it was Minty!!! Still makes me laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdawg Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I find the knowledge you pick up on the courses is very good and I have found all course I've completed ( im a qualified Uefa B ) has helped me improve as a player as well as a coach. I know people who have played SWL football all their life, and done the Level 2 once they stop playing, and wish they did it 15 years ago just to help their playing knowledge. Qualifications can only help your knowledge of the game, but then your players available and your philosophy of football has to also match up. I for one cant really stand managers who just yell and shout at their players, and watching Torpoint a few times this season when our games been off, I can see you Stuart are a manager who would rather just watch your team play and make changes accordingly and when neccessary which I admire. And I think it is well known great players dont always make great managers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Professor Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hey Professor, what's with the pic of Jose - surely you ought to have Fergie on there! Loving your work RT, good point about the beginning of the process to be a good coach, it's not just about having the piece of paper - Mr Soper would be proud of you! Remember the Tutor Course...how did you know it was Minty!!! Still makes me laugh! I know I'm a Red, but I'm a big Jose fan mate. People keep calling me special! Sopes is still doing the rounds. I last saw him at a course back before Christmas, and he's still bloody good! As for the Minty thing, you and Gamms had started giggling like schoolgirls before I'd even finished my story, so what chance did I have with you two! Keep up the good work. I'll try and get down to the Mill before the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Matthews Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 I was always too busy playing to do my qualifications. A mistake in hindsight as I learned so much more about the game having done my qualifications and found the courses really enjoyable. You get to mix with some brilliant guys who are all learning at the same pace as you and all seem to be really helpful. When I finished playing I decided to help out doing some coaching to put something back in the game that treated me so well for years. I guess I'm really no different to everyone else. But I did want to do it properly and went ahead and did my Level 2 and then Level 3 . I have to say that the latter was "all-consuming" I found myself thinking and planning every waking hour, and the course took around 150 hours to complete. I had some fantastic tutors on both the courses, Roger Soper and Alan Gillett as well as Steve Rutter who's now the FA's head of coach education. I would urge anyone to get even the most basic of qualifications, it may not always increase your knowledge but it may help your delivery of coaching sessions which in itself is a good thing. Having played at a reasonable level I learned a huge amount and really recommend it. At County Youth level we now have 3 UEFA B coaches and a Level 3 Treatment of Injuries First Aider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 So at the end of the day, you do not need qualifications in coaching to be a manager in the Peninsular League!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillo10 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Just the qualification of a mouth and/or decent sized bank balance ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr unorthodox Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Unfortunatly there is not alot of quality in the SW in regards to coaching, it is more a fact of who you know not what you know. To many coaches in the leagues go by on who they know not what they know. We all know the successful managers (usually) have good connections with good players, even if its only one or two players. I have been in some clubs where the manager has asked one or two of the players who are PE teachers, PTI's, or have some compacity within a sporting or physical profession to help with training. This leaves the manager with the the signing of players, (which predominatly happens through who they know or who who players know) and choosing a starting 11, which for most teams anyone involved in the club or has seen the team play a few times could do. The only true thing any SW manager brings is motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Professor Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Some interesting views so far. Putting all of them together, would a rule forcing all SWPL clubs to have a qualified coach be well received? (Of course, this coach could be the manager, or it could be another individual, and the level of qualification would need to be agreed by the league committee). 1) Would it raise standards of play? 2) Would many of the players appreciate the input? (Many fail to differentiate between coaching and criticism) 3) Would it raise the importance of professional development amongst managers/coaches (perhaps allowing workshops/clinics to share ideas)? 4) Is it asking a lot of already stretched 'volunteers'? 5) Would it reduce the manager, and therefore player (and often whole team) merry-go-rounds through a more long-term approach to club development? 6) Would it help to reduce the notion of more money = more chance to have a competitive team? 7) Is it too big of a culture change for many clubs and/or local leagues? I don't post often on this site, I'm more of an interested observer, and I see many topics discussed - often trivial. Surely something like this is pretty important? We are talking about raising the standards of players, coaching, governance, and therefore Cornish football. We all love the game and have varying levels of motivation, but the potential of a better 'product' for us all is worth exploring or at least discussing further.......in my humble opinion....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr unorthodox Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 haha this is a very good scenario being put foward....maybe you could suggest it to someone looking at a coaching Masters or a dissertation! haha im sure All the Gareth's would have an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hot rod red Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Did Bill shankley or sir matt busby have coaching badges ???? Alex Ferguson only got one when it became a rule that you needed one. Having acoaching badge doesnt make you better manager it makes money for the fa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Matthews Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Bill Shankley and Matt Busby would have had to do them if they managed today. Just like David Platt couldn't officially manage at Sampdoria some years ago because he didn't have the right qualifications. The European countries have had mandatory qualifications imposed for years. Why would you want a senior figure in charge at any multi-million pound organisation who hasn't got a qualification? Managers are responsible for overseeing millions of pounds worth of club assets and then being able to work with and improve them. The UEFA Pro Licence is as much to do with this aspect of running a club as it is to do with the actual coaching of players. I'm certain that Alex Ferguson would wholehartedly support the system of coaching qualifications. Does it make you a better manager? For me...absolutely! But perhaps I'm not fortunate enough to know as much about the game as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Professor Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Bill Shankley and Matt Busby would have had to do them if they managed today. Just like David Platt couldn't officially manage at Sampdoria some years ago because he didn't have the right qualifications. The European countries have had mandatory qualifications imposed for years. Why would you want a senior figure in charge at any multi-million pound organisation who hasn't got a qualification? Managers are responsible for overseeing millions of pounds worth of club assets and then being able to work with and improve them. The UEFA Pro Licence is as much to do with this aspect of running a club as it is to do with the actual coaching of players. I'm certain that Alex Ferguson would wholehartedly support the system of coaching qualifications. Does it make you a better manager? For me...absolutely! But perhaps I'm not fortunate enough to know as much about the game as you. What he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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