Cornish Identity

[NORTH DEVON DWELLER]

Why has this thread been able to go on for so long??? It has absolutely nothing to do with football and is in the non cornish football section??????

Sounds like a place for someone to try to push their beliefs onto other people sort of thread.

Thinks its time for mods to draw a line under it. :SM_carton:

[The Ginger Jedi]

There has been complaint that the English get prefernce over others in local housing matters.

This is a topic unconnected to Football and the Administration are out of order to allow it to continue.

Unless, of course, they are glad to have this site used for reasons other than football.

A post made by one poster who only contributed two posts to the whole thread and a post to which no-one lauded. We live in the EU, people can live wherever they please within member countries.

[Graham Hart]

My god you're a jumped up old fart aren't you.

In your case; Yes.

Is your life really so empty that you have to commit yourself to pathetically attempting to revive the past just so that you feel you'll have some sort of identity?.

I did'nt start this thread. I came here because I was made aware of it via a friend. I've been involved in football in Cornwall all my life and entitled to my say equally as much as you. I mentioned it to my friend KernowGB who decided add his considerable knowledge. Then the Ginger Jedi also gave the Cornish perspective added weight. The pathetic attempt to deny knowledge - the revival has being going on for twenty years - is being made by two Englishmen who in turn have their identity recognised and know sod all about where they live and because of that, you have the audacity to tell me who I am. Bloody cheek !

How is me explaining a comment to someone who misunderstood me on another topic "spamming" or "seeking support".?. What the hell do I need to seek support for?.

I went to the Merry Xmas thread ( which I assume I'm allowed to do, or do I need your permission ) and saw your reference to a "couple of cornishmen". Also,

Yeah good point there. BUT they're English clubs, so are probably not welcome

Are you now saying this was'nt aimed at me ???

You truly are an insecure old codger aren't you?.

Insecure ? No. Far from it. Insecurity belongs to people who are as open minded as the thickness of a razor blade.

Is that why a good majority of your posts have been between 12am and 5am? Because you have to keep going to check that you've locked your front and back door?

No. It's because people in the music business don't do 9 to 5. I should also add that I love my job...especially the hour.

You say "Nowhere on this thread will you find a pro Cornish post voicing their " 'disapproval' of English folk and English suffocation".. Really??. I simply can't be arsed to check who said it BUT I clearly remember a statement along the lines of "I hate the English and the way they come down here and buy a house but never live in it", AND another saying "the English come down here and get a council flat but I've been waiting for ? years and can't get one"..So, NO LIES by me either then

I can't be arsed either but I do now recall it being said, though not by me. However, I stand corrected and apologise.

Get a life old fella, discover your own identity and stop wasting your time trying to create one from the past.

as open minded as the thickness of a razor blade.

I don't know who appointed you as the "forum police" but I'm fairly sure that I'm entitled to say what I want, when I want until the moderators tell me otherwise?..

Ditto.

In the meantime, how about you/we grow old gracefully and look forward to the unquestionable inevitability that Cornwall as a country faced a LONG TIME ago... Death, cease to exist, become defunct, become a thing of the past . Of course, there is a difference between you and I dying, and the Cornwall of old!! Once we're gone, nobody will waste their time and their life pathetically attempting to revive the unrevivable

Really ? How about you getting your head around the fact that Cornwall's recognition is now unstoppable and sooner than you think ?. Trust me. I know of such things.........Pard.

Merry Xmas to all.

[The Ginger Jedi]

Racism? What are you on about? There's a post that says when you leave Cornwall you enter 'civilisation', I suppose that could be interpreted as racist.

Think you'll find it said, "when you leave Cornwall you have to pay to enter civilisation".. It was then explained that the statement was about how things happen if they are needed, unlike down here where a town of some 38000 people (Penzance) had to wait over 30 years for a leisure centre to be allowed to be built. Or how it took lord knows how long for a bypass to take traffic away from Gossmoor etc etc..

Across that border, civilisation IS building and improving. Down here they do all they can to cling to a past and stifle advancement because of a few granite walls along the roadside.

That's NOT racist, it's FACT...

Racism is pretty much described and accepted as being something "usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others".. Tell me where in my statement of "when you leave Cornwall you have to pay to enter civilisation", do I say that there is a superior race with the right to rule others?. If you like, I can save you the pain of thought, and just tell you the answer is NOWHERE...

Coopsie, as I have said you are very 'limited'. Even in your defence of your original post you are suggesting that Cornwall is not civilised because we are not building and improving yet claiming that this isn't a suggestion the English are superior. A complete contradiction. To suggest that to leave Cornwall and to enter England is to enter civilisation without doubt suggests Cornwall is inferior to England ergo England is superior to Cornwall. I'm using your definiton of racism here not mine. Racism has nothing to do with 'ruling' others but absolutely is down to a concept of superiority on the grounds of race - in this instance the English and the Cornish. For the record I do not think you are a racist but to suggest Cornwall is 'uncivilised' and England is 'civilised' could be interpreted as such. As I said you are very limited so I wouldn't expect you to understand such complicated concepts and this is why I don't think you are a racist.

The questions you should be asking is why has it taken so long for the Goss Moor bypass to be built? These are decisions made in England not Cornwall, a fact.

Why has Penzance had to wait over 30 years for a leisure centre? Well in an eariler post I have said that the Cornish tax payer gives Westminster £300 000 000 more than the Cornish tax payer receives back. How many leisure centres could be paid for with that money?

To use an analogy from modern popular culture you can take the red pill or carry on taking the blue.

[Guest KernowGB]

Seeing as how this is the time of Peace & Goodwill to all, may I please wish you all the Season’s Best in the unique language of our little country – our unique Cornish Duchy of Cornwall? Namely:

NADELEK LOWEN ha BLEDHEN NOWETH DA!

(Happy Christmas and a Good New Year!)

Sad to see the inevitable exchange by recent posts from those that would deny, and misrepresent, the Cornish Truth. Therefore, I would like to point to the modern origins of our Cornish Duchy, as stated by the person who created/restored it in 1337. I refer, of course, to the English king Edward III. The following extracts from the Law Officers of the Duchy of Cornwall, 150 years ago, indicate the special constitutional significance of that creation as, in fact, a restoration. For example:

The reasons for the creation of the Honor of Duchy of Cornwall were given, inter alia, as:

"the

restoration

of old ones",

viz. the Honor (of Cornwall)

"over which a while ago Dukes for a long time successively

presided as chief rulers

" .....

and,

"desiring that

places of note

of the same kingdom should

be adorned with their pristine honors

".

Another reason given being that

"... lands

subjected to our dominion

, may be more securely and fitly defended against the attempts of enemies and adversaries......"

It must be noted that the king was not referring to the time when Cornwall had its most powerful Earls, Richard and Edmund, but referred to the time prior to Athelstan. It should also be pointed out the particular distinction of Cornwall at that time is illustrated by a Charter of the English king Edmund, in AD 944, immediately following Athelstan, in which he identifies himself as:

“King of the English, and

ruler of this Province of the Britons

”

The Officers of the Duchy were able to bring to the arguments many extant documents which clearly indicate that the focus of the grant was not merely a collection of estates - as alleged! - but was a territorial grant as is obvious from the following extract from their evidence:

"About 60 years after the creation of the Duchy, we find in the Charter of 1st Henry IV. to Prince Henry, the eldest Son of that King, as follows :

"We have made and created Henry our most dear first-begotten Son, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, and have given and granted, and by our Charter have confirmed to him the said Principality, Duchy, and Earldom,

that he may preside there, and by presiding, may direct and defend the said parts

. We have invested him with the said Principality, Duchy, and Earldom, per sertum in capite et annulum in digito aureum ac virgam auream juxta morem."

In an earlier post, I referred to the first Duke's distinction, in 1351, between Cornwall and England. For those that prefer to encourage us to disregard history, the constitutional position of Cornwall within this island has not changed and is, in fact, affirmed every time there is a new Monarch and Duke of Cornwall. The lies and deception, that too many prefer to believe in, is very reminiscent of a not too distant topical event.

I regret that I must correct my friend, Graham's observation and confirm that, what has been termed, the Cornish Renaissance has been going on for over a 100 years. I have been at it for 50.

[Lee_]

Re: this debate going on...

One thing that I would like to say Kernow GB is that your posting style is very "floral", lots of nice flowery language, big words and quotes from people like Carl Sandberg, Bertrand Russell plus many others.

What I would encourage you to do is take a look at this message board and just see if you think whether or not most people here can possibly comprehend half of it. No disrespect intended but other than the few who are replying (biting perhaps?) Im not sure that anyone else could possibly even bring themselves to contemplate reading it.

I do however suspect that you and honorary Newquay Loyal member Rodney Beer would get on like a house on fire.

Merry Christmas :smiley20:

[Guest KernowGB]

Thanks Lee, your comments are appreciated. I am sure you will also acknowledge that it would be patronising of me to hold such an opinion of fellow posters. I can assure everyone that what I have posted is the 'simple' version of a very complicated issue.

Given the subject of this thread, I believe, that there are only two aspects to it, namely, the reader will either see it within a positive context, or a negative context. Those that view it from a negative perspective I would seek to change their minds within discussion. For those, already aware of their 'Cornish' identity, they have the opportunity to discuss it further and I would clarify any points, or alternatively, they can move on in the knowledge that there is much more to a 'real' Cornish identity than what they have been led to believe.

Have a Good One!

[Guest noel]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is a second plea. Really need more female and older respondents. I realise it's a pain, but if any of you could convince girlfriends, wives, mums and/or grandparents etc, it would really help my study, which is throwing up some very interesting results, but cannot really be viable (the online section anyway), until I get a more balanced gender sampling.

Thank you again.

Happy New Year!

Noel Thompson

[Guest noel]

To save people having to go right back to the start, here is the address again:

www.cornishidentitysurvey.blogspot.com

Again, no personal info is needed.

Cheers,

Noel

[Guest KernowGB]

Noel, Have you drawn any conclusions yet, as to why the response is lacking from the "female and older respondents"?

I wish you luck with the survey and dissertation and would query what is likely to happen to the final results? There is surely a critical need for such a survey, but wonder whether a personal project, such as this, could do the subject justice?

Have you checked out the results of the 2001 Census, which received a response of 37,000 (10% of these were from 'up in England') despite the lack of any 'official' publicity? We have still been denied the right to have a dedicated tick box in the 2011 Census, but there will still be the opportunity to record oneself as 'Cornish' both for ethnicity and nationality. This time, we have been assured that there will be proper 'official' publicity. We shall have to see how sincere that might be!

[Coopsie]

Noel, Have you drawn any conclusions yet, as to why the response is lacking from the "female and older respondents"?

I wish you luck with the survey and dissertation and would query what is likely to happen to the final results? There is surely a critical need for such a survey, but wonder whether a personal project, such as this, could do the subject justice?

Have you checked out the results of the 2001 Census, which received a response of 37,000 (10% of these were from 'up in England') despite the lack of any 'official' publicity? We have still been denied the right to have a dedicated tick box in the 2011 Census, but there will still be the opportunity to record oneself as 'Cornish' both for ethnicity and nationality. This time, we have been assured that there will be proper 'official' publicity. We shall have to see how sincere that might be!

FOR F**K SAKE... Use the "PM" facility will you, and stop clogging the site with this crap ... What you just asked was CLEARLY a personal question(s) to Noel, so why not keep it off the damn forum (like people have politely suggested/asked you to do) and communicate privately?.

I can't be fu***d with this anymore, I've used this site for years, I donate towards its upkeep, but I've got NO interest whatsoever in using it anymore because of this SHIT .

YES I'm aware that a bloody good portion of you will be chuffed with that decision, and the facility may well be a better place for it?, but I think it's a REAL shame that the moderators/people with the power, didn't listen to educated and liked members of the forum, people such as chairman, Anita, North Devon Dweller et al, and remove this topic ages ago, because at the end of the day, they have been here for ages and will ALWAYS be here contributing to this wonderful facility.

Unlike those select few who have only gained a voice since this topic arrived..

Coopsie out :angry:

[Anita]

I can't be fu***d with this anymore, I've used this site for years, I donate towards its upkeep, but I've got NO interest whatsoever in using it anymore because of this SHIT .

YES I'm aware that a bloody good portion of you will be chuffed with that decision, and the facility may well be a better place for it?, but I think it's a REAL shame that the moderators/people with the power, didn't listen to educated and liked members of the forum, people such as chairman, Anita, North Devon Dweller et al, and remove this topic ages ago, because at the end of the day, they have been here for ages and will ALWAYS be here contributing to this wonderful facility.

Unlike those select few who have only gained a voice since this topic arrived..

Coopsie out

I remember when there was a time if it wasnt about football it would be removed, then there was that guy who came on that once to advertise that 'woman' who was appearing in Truro and that opened a door way for anyone to post anything

This topic has taken over this forum, its split users and some who at one time where mates now don't talk. It Cornish identity gone mad, next you'll be telling me that Colchester is the capital not London because up until AD 40 it was Think this topics long over due to be closed/deleted. :unsure:

[Guest KernowGB]

This topic has taken over this forum, its split users and some who at one time where mates now don't talk. It Cornish identity gone mad, next you'll be telling me that Colchester is the capital not London because up until AD 40 it was Think this topics long over due to be closed/deleted.

What it has really shown, is the narrow prejudice of a couple of the regular posters to the thought of discussing a 'Cornish Identity' in a positive, and legitimate, context.

I feel sure that if Noel is truly objective about what his survey highlights, then he will feel that this thread, in particular, has been invaluable in exposing latent prejudices. Everything is OK, if we all behave like good English men & women. It is irrelevant where the topic is discussed, because the truth will out, and an attempt to suggest otherwise is completely disingenuous! What are you afraid of?

Perhaps every message board deserves to be refreshed by such an occasional Heineken moment?

[Gareth]

Cheers Coopsie, it's been emotional fella!

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has got one.

[bluestorm]

Noel, Have you drawn any conclusions yet, as to why the response is lacking from the "female and older respondents"?

I wish you luck with the survey and dissertation and would query what is likely to happen to the final results? There is surely a critical need for such a survey, but wonder whether a personal project, such as this, could do the subject justice?

Have you checked out the results of the 2001 Census, which received a response of 37,000 (10% of these were from 'up in England') despite the lack of any 'official' publicity? We have still been denied the right to have a dedicated tick box in the 2011 Census, but there will still be the opportunity to record oneself as 'Cornish' both for ethnicity and nationality. This time, we have been assured that there will be proper 'official' publicity. We shall have to see how sincere that might be!

FOR F**K SAKE... Use the "PM" facility will you, and stop clogging the site with this crap ... What you just asked was CLEARLY a personal question(s) to Noel, so why not keep it off the damn forum (like people have politely suggested/asked you to do) and communicate privately?.

I can't be fu***d with this anymore, I've used this site for years, I donate towards its upkeep, but I've got NO interest whatsoever in using it anymore because of this SHIT .

YES I'm aware that a bloody good portion of you will be chuffed with that decision, and the facility may well be a better place for it?, but I think it's a REAL shame that the moderators/people with the power, didn't listen to educated and liked members of the forum, people such as chairman, Anita, North Devon Dweller et al, and remove this topic ages ago, because at the end of the day, they have been here for ages and will ALWAYS be here contributing to this wonderful facility.

Unlike those select few who have only gained a voice since this topic arrived..

Coopsie out

44 posts on one topic, got to be some sort of record for Cornish soccer forum ?

[Graham Hart]

Anita.

If this topic was being spammed over the entire website, I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but it's not.It has stayed within this one single thread. I say again it is soccer related because of the eventual outcome.

Recognition is an unstoppable force now and I was well aware that these revelations would cause upset to some in the football fraternity.

I'm sorry that Coopsie feels it nessesary to take the action he proposes and truly hope he changes his mind, but he and others must understand the eventual benefits it will bring our game, if the game chooses to take up the option when it becomes available, which will be the choice off ALL in Cornish Soccer and not that of just a few who debate and donate here.

As KGB says: What are you afraid of?

[Anita]

Anita.

If this topic was being spammed over the entire website, I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but it's not.It has stayed within this one single thread. I say again it is soccer related because of the eventual outcome.

Recognition is an unstoppable force now and I was well aware that these revelations would cause upset to some in the football fraternity.

I'm sorry that Coopsie feels it nessesary to take the action he proposes and truly hope he changes his mind, but he and others must understand the eventual benefits it will bring our game, if the game chooses to take up the option when it becomes available, which will be the choice off ALL in Cornish Soccer and not that of just a few who debate and donate here.

As KGB says: What are you afraid of?

It is on other threads, take the merry christmas one for example.

What is the eventual outcome that your hoping for?? Tht every english referee will get more abuse because they are not Cornish? That certain people will not be able to play for clubs because they are not Cornish? That the English people who help out in clubs in Cornwall will be pushed out because the Cornish don't like them, all the English do is come down here and take our jobs/women/houses and so on.

And one last thing what are the benefits it will bring football??? ;)

[The Ginger Jedi]

Anita.

If this topic was being spammed over the entire website, I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but it's not.It has stayed within this one single thread. I say again it is soccer related because of the eventual outcome.

Recognition is an unstoppable force now and I was well aware that these revelations would cause upset to some in the football fraternity.

I'm sorry that Coopsie feels it nessesary to take the action he proposes and truly hope he changes his mind, but he and others must understand the eventual benefits it will bring our game, if the game chooses to take up the option when it becomes available, which will be the choice off ALL in Cornish Soccer and not that of just a few who debate and donate here.

As KGB says: What are you afraid of?

Coopsie throwing his toys out of the pram. How on earth has this topic dominated the forum. It is one thread on one section of a very large forum, I'm amazed how rabid some people have become over this thread. Instead of people like Coopsie ignoring the thread he continues to post on it, surely there is a contradicion there. It's my conclusion that people like to live in comfortable bubbles where they have readily believed what they have been told by the state from childhood. When presented with an alternate view (which is backed up by facts) it seems to ***** said bubble and they become completely irrational in their behaviour, making wild accusations, begging for the thread to be removed etc etc whilst offering no factual counter debate. Very strange and dare I say it, childish.

Anita.

If this topic was being spammed over the entire website, I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but it's not.It has stayed within this one single thread. I say again it is soccer related because of the eventual outcome.

Recognition is an unstoppable force now and I was well aware that these revelations would cause upset to some in the football fraternity.

I'm sorry that Coopsie feels it nessesary to take the action he proposes and truly hope he changes his mind, but he and others must understand the eventual benefits it will bring our game, if the game chooses to take up the option when it becomes available, which will be the choice off ALL in Cornish Soccer and not that of just a few who debate and donate here.

As KGB says: What are you afraid of?

It is on other threads, take the merry christmas one for example.

What is the eventual outcome that your hoping for?? Tht every english referee will get more abuse because they are not Cornish? That certain people will not be able to play for clubs because they are not Cornish? That the English people who help out in clubs in Cornwall will be pushed out because the Cornish don't like them, all the English do is come down here and take our jobs/women/houses and so on.

And one last thing what are the benefits it will bring football???

How can wishing the people of this forum a merry christmas and a happy new year in the Cornish tongue be so offensive? Similarly the pro-Cornish faction on this thread have not said anything remotely anti-English, you will not meet a bigger Anglophile than me. The state is the issue, not the English people. The latter part of your post is just bizarre, you seem to be projecting your fears and prejudices on to other people. Who has intimated that this is what people like Graham are 'hoping for'. It just proves that you haven't really read what has been debated on this thread.

[Graham Hart]

It is on other threads, take the merry christmas one for example.

Not from me. Are there any others ?

What is the eventual outcome that your hoping for?? That every english referee will get more abuse because they are not Cornish? That certain people will not be able to play for clubs because they are not Cornish? That the English people who help out in clubs in Cornwall will be pushed out because the Cornish don't like them,

That is a stunning statement Anita, but at least you have the guts to air your views, or should I say fears.

You tell me ? Does it happen anywhere else in the British Isles ?

all the English do is come down here and take our jobs/women/houses and so on.

You and every other person reading this thread must understand and get it into your heads once and for all; This is about the Establishment and the Establishment only. It has nothing to do with English people or any other minority living in Cornwall.

[Guest Chris B]

what would happen if England gave cornwall its independence? Then a new Government took over and wanted it back and say 'invaded'...What really would happen? Pick up your pitch folks and fight?!? My son was born in truro and He is English, but born in the county of cornwall.

[Guest noel]

Just to clarify my position. My data collection has two strands, an online questionnaire and a street-based questionnaire. The online questionnaire has collected from a wide range of sources, but obviously, and this was a concern before I started, the internet is used by younger people more than older. The lack of female respondents could be down to a lack of interest in the subject, a lack of trust in doing such online questionnaires or a lack of female use of chat rooms/forums. I am trying to balance these problems with specific sampling, coupled of course with my pleas on sites such as this.

Any help would be appreciated. I hope those who object to this thread understand, I am simply trying to get as large a sampling as possible.

To answer the questions about the Census etc., my study will be limited simply because it is an undergraduate dissertation. The study will be quite clear from the off, however, that it is indictative of Cornish indentity, not representative (unless I get thousands rather than hundreds!).

Thank you,

Noel

[Guest KernowGB]

'Chris B' date='Dec 30 2009, 11:19 AM' post='130241']

what would happen if England gave cornwall its independence? Then a new Government took over and wanted it back and say 'invaded'...What really would happen? Pick up your pitch folks and fight?!?

My son was born in truro and He is English, but born in the county of cornwall.

You either have not followed this thread or failed to understand its content, or both. You do, however, highlight a general misconception, when you erroneously imply that 'England' has the power to give "Cornwall its Independence". What you are perpetuating is the inertia of an English Imperial State (EIS) which in theory, at least! - has not existed for the past 300/400 years, but which has established a synonymy between what is England/English and Britain/British. Remember that famous Shakespearian quote regarding "This Sceptred Isle - This England!"?

The scenario you paint is a pathetic, and pointless, attempt to make your highlighted statement appear more emotive than it truly was. Your son, whom you appear to speak for, is entitled to identify himself in any way that he wishes, for any reason that he wishes to state. The fact that it is based on an immaculate deception is something for a future conscience - whether his, his descendants, or your own perceived ideological position. From a truly Cornish perspective, I would wish that it could be branded with some equivalent epithet such as we see attributed to the 'physical' shock & awe acts of genocide.

However, to re-affirm the Cornish position, yet again: it is an issue of RECOGNITION of RIGHTS and nothing to do with INDEPENDENCE!

Noel, sincere thanks for the reply and all understood.

Good Luck!

[The Ginger Jedi]

B)-->

what would happen if England gave cornwall its independence? Then a new Government took over and wanted it back and say 'invaded'...What really would happen? Pick up your pitch folks and fight?!? My son was born in truro and He is English, but born in the county of cornwall.

Who's demanding independence? Have you read this thread? I don't know how old your son is but surely he either can or will make up his own free will as to how he perceives his nationalityf? Why should he need you to tell us what he is? Very strange behaviour. My son is called Piran and was born in Camborne, he will receive a balanced education in the history of the British Isles (one you don't find in the present curriculum)and if he considers himself English then that is a decision of his own free-will.

[Guest Chris B]

Sorry my mistake. I thought this debate was about people classing themselves as Cornish rather than English (nationality)..

If all these people class thier nationality as Cornish, then why doesn't anyone one speak it? if my heritage OR indeed my nationality was of different from English (god i hope not) then i would want to learn my 'Mother tongue' ie first language. I have a proud Welshman as a friend who indeed is fluent in Welsh and classes it as his 1st language. - Before people pick up on it yes, in Wales, welsh is taught in some schools - but thats the difference between a country like Wales and a 'duchy' like Cornwall.

And Ginge, I never said anyone was demanding independence it was a hypothetical situation.

Kernow GB no doubt this will ruffle your cornish feathers but its only my opinion as its a debate on a public forum so i'm not sorry if you dont agree. And my son cannot speak for himself yet, and as his father i will bring him up as a proud Englishman like my dad did to me and so on. Everyone is thier own person and one day he will make is own mind up.

I hope you like font, fancy aint it? I find it easier on the eye to your chosen font...Very posh though. You must of gone to Truro High :thumbsup:

[The Ginger Jedi]

B)-->

Sorry my mistake. I thought this debate was about people classing themselves as Cornish rather than English (nationality)..

If all these people class thier nationality as Cornish, then why doesn't anyone one speak it? if my heritage OR indeed my nationality was of different from English (god i hope not) then i would want to learn my 'Mother tongue' ie first language. I have a proud Welshman as a friend who indeed is fluent in Welsh and classes it as his 1st language. - Before people pick up on it yes, in Wales, welsh is taught in some schools - but thats the difference between a country like Wales and a 'duchy' like Cornwall.

And Ginge, I never said anyone was demanding independence it was a hypothetical situation.

Kernow GB no doubt this will ruffle your cornish feathers but its only my opinion as its a debate on a public forum so i'm not sorry if you dont agree. And my son cannot speak for himself yet, and as his father i will bring him up as a proud Englishman like my dad did to me and so on. Everyone is thier own person and one day he will make is own mind up.

It's not about agreeing or not agreeing, I just found it strange that you had to tell us what nationality your son is. Why feel the need to do that? Why not just wait for him to make his own mind up?

I think you will find that Welsh is taught in most schools now, not some. Of course this has had a massive impact on the amount of Welsh speakers now, this wasn't the case a generation ago so one hopes our masters in Whitehall and Westminster change their attitude to the Cornish school curriculum.

[Guest KernowGB]

Chris B @ Dec 30 2009, 05:47

Sorry my mistake. I thought this debate was about people classing themselves as Cornish rather than English (nationality)..

If all these people class thier nationality as Cornish, then why doesn't anyone one speak it? if my heritage OR indeed my nationality was of different from English (god i hope not) then i would want to learn my 'Mother tongue' ie first language. I have a proud Welshman as a friend who indeed is fluent in Welsh and classes it as his 1st language. - Before people pick up on it yes, in Wales, welsh is taught in some schools - but thats the difference between a country like Wales and a 'duchy' like Cornwall.

And Ginge, I never said anyone was demanding independence it was a hypothetical situation.

Kernow GB no doubt this will ruffle your cornish feathers but its only my opinion as its a debate on a public forum so i'm not sorry if you dont agree. And my son cannot speak for himself yet, and as his father i will bring him up as a proud Englishman like my dad did to me and so on. Everyone is thier own person and one day he will make is own mind up.

I hope you like font, fancy aint it? I find it easier on the eye to your chosen font...Very posh though. You must of gone to Truro High

As I have previously suggested, you have neither read nor understood what this thread is about. You have now suggested that you posed a hypothetical situation, when that was very obvious from the outset. What other purpose could it serve, other than the point I made? You also posed a tautological reason for your son's identity.

The only difference between Wales and Cornwall is that Cornwall is repressed and subjected to covert policies of genocide of which you are clearly a part. Also please consider this: that if Wales & Scotland had been smaller they would have suffered the same fate. Why, for example, is there no British Soccer Team?

Your childish comment, in conclusion, just about sums up your approach to this topic. I can assure you that I am impervious to the playground humour of people of your ilk.

edited 21:00 to add some points I did not have time to include earlier:

1. Yes, this thread is about Cornish Identity,
   so what are you doing here?
   
   
2. You have a flawed perception of ‘nationality’ and seem to think that speaking ‘the Cornish language’ is the only criteria for claiming a national identity. This is clearly aimed at trivialising the debate. So!
   What are you doing here?
   
   
   For the record Cornwall’s mother tongue is ‘Cornish’, but, for reasons covered elsewhere, it is not currently our first language. It is, however, just one facet of a national identity, which does, at least, exist. We have the right to correct that, but that will be dependent upon future generations and the availability of international protections readily available to others.
   
   
3. You have opted to give me some semblance of a totally unrelated, and trivialising, response, but it is noted that you have
   chosen not to respond to any of my points
   that I made in response to you!
   Why is that?
   Simply stating
   'opinions'
   is not a debate!
   
   

[Scooby]

KernowGB,

England v Scotland is the oldest international rivalry in Football, that is why there has never been a British side!

you are now talking tripe about football which strengthens the case for you to keep your politically motivated threads away from this forum!

(I believe I was quite polite in expressing that)

[Guest KernowGB]

And why would you not wish to be polite?

With the greatest respect, I was hoping for a better answer than that. In reality, it has nothing to do with soccer, per se, so why the rather OTT comment about my knowledge of soccer? I was asking a question, not discussing tripe. I have certainly read a lot about it, in the past, and there is some interesting stuff out there, which does not directly align with your thinking. I certainly accept the self-evident point about rivalry and by that you have unwittingly pointed in the direction of a reason why. But... it is even more profound than that! Might even be categorised as 'political'.

[Graham Hart]

QUOTE(chairman @ Dec 30 2009, 09:16 AM)

You must be aware that certain postings on this site are clearly heavily political rather than football related and upset some people including me.

Have you made a decision to allow these postings and if so, is it because you welcome the content?

See what you've started now - in a football section!

Just ignore it; it will die down sooner or later

Not much chance of that Dan

So Chairman and a posse of about three want it taken down. I'm so glad DD stood his ground. As so often, a minority even as small as this one, get their way. Jedi's Mary Whitehouse quote says it all.

I'd love to write much, much more but it's suppertime and then bed........... In the new year then eh ?

Have a great 2010.

[Guest Chris B]

Kernow Gb you take yourself far too seriously. You should have a chat with Rodney Beer i think you 2 would get on swimmingly. British soccer team? Now thats playground Humour!

Wish i never came across this thread

ENGLAND TIL I DIE

GOODBYE

[Guest KernowGB]

Since you persist in going 'off-topic', the reason cannot possibly be positive, can it? You obviously lack the ability to respond in a proper manner. RIP!

Kernow Bys Vyken!

(Cornwall for ever)

To Infinity & Beyond!

[Guest Chris B]

its boring now i hope the thread dies out. I'm definately off to put my english son to bed, in my english house, in a english county, in ENGLAND...

Happy new Year All from an Englishman in Kernow (sang by jethro - i think sting did the original? )

[Graham Hart]

A lot of footballers wish they never came accross this thread Chris, but they have. Now you know, it's too late to go back and bury your head in the sand.

If you're Cornish, you're not English. Get used to it, get over it, and move on. Or you can keep your potentially tiny mind shut. Your choice Dude.

I don't think the thread will die for a long while yet. Sorry.

Whatever, have a great 2010 anyway

Ps. Your signature is brilliant.

[Guest BLATCHY]

COUNTY COUNTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU LIVE IN ENGLAND WAKE UP END OF STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't like it move to wales or scotland lol!!!!!!!!! :clapper:

[Guest KernowGB]

It is truly amazing how hard these people try to convince themselves. We must again note, of course, without any discussion to justify such a stance within a discussion on ‘Cornish’ identity, and which gives examples of why they are not correct. However, thanks for trying, it gives me a great chance to add the following snippets:

When Simon Schama presented his "A History of Britain" TV series in 2000, his observations on the English king, Edward I, and his campaign in Wales was to illustrate a universal truth, so very relevant to Cornwall today. He observed that:

"...However, the subjugation of Wales was more than the surgical application of brute force. Edward had the chilling - uncannily modern! - knowledge that to break your enemy you must first strip him of his cultural identity..."

He further observed that:

"After a century of rule by kings who are essentially Frenchmen, Edward can be called the first truly English king - given an old Anglo-Saxon name [named after Edward the Confessor] and imbued with a frightening certainty that it was England's Imperial mission to take its rule to the four corners of the British island".

It is clear that this process is maintained and carried forward. The only change to the mediaeval way of doing things, is the modern sophistication of the process. We no longer have kings and their hilltop castles, but we now have unquestioning, brainwashed vassals in their modern semis, or terraced cottages doing the dirty work! Very nasty wolves in sheep’s clothing comes to mind!

BTW, will whoever it is that has taken Blatchy’s rattle, please return it, before he/she has a seizure?

I wonder if these modern Imperial vassals know who ultimately owns the property, which they may call their own, should it ever lack a heir - according to Bona Vacantia?

I wonder if these modern Imperial vassals understand why the Duke of Cornwall is not obliged to pay tax and is the only owner of, allegedly, a 'private estate' that volunteers to pay tax, purely as a PR exercise?

I wonder if these modern Imperial vassals understand why there are no Crown Estates within Cornwall?

[Guest Chris B]

A lot of footballers wish they never came accross this thread Chris, but they have. Now you know, it's too late to go back and bury your head in the sand.

If you're Cornish, you're not English. Get used to it, get over it, and move on. Or you can keep your potentially tiny mind shut. Your choice Dude.

I don't think the thread will die for a long while yet. Sorry.

Whatever, have a great 2010 anyway

Ps. Your signature is brilliant.

No i'm not from cornwall. i'm from somewhere which is smiliar to cornwall. Alot of people share the same surname and are related in some bizarre way ... Norfolk

Just because you do not agree with my opinion doesn't make me have a tiny mind as you put it.

ask yourself one question... if you sent a letter/postcard from abroad (not devon) to cornwall, WOULD YOU PUT ENGLAND/U.K AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ADDRESS?? or would you leave it with cornwall and the postal code???

Answers of a postage to ... England

PS

My signature is ******* brilliant

you also ave a good new year my friend

[Dave Deacon]

OK everyone, this thread is now about to be closed.

Everyone's had their say and after all, this sub-forum is actually for non-Cornish FOOTBALL discussion!