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Cornish Identity


Guest noel

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Not sure that I want to think too hard about that one! :blink:

Although, to be fair, they have had 1500 years of experience at it. :lol::clapper:

I think users of this forum are clever enough to figure out the humour and irony within my previous post.. :rolleyes:

As for the 1500 years of experience the English have had !!.. Well you'd think we'd be able to remember wouldn't you?, Seeing as it feels as though thats when this god forsaken topic was started on here :( :angry2:

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Guest KernowGB

I put this here, not for those with the closed minds and opinions as experienced above, but for those that will have the desire to understand what this thread is, or should be, about. A Cornish Identity should be something more than a political discussion (to be treated dismissively) and can only come from a sincere cultural and apolitical affinity with Cornwall and its history. A 150 years ago the Duchy had to defend its vested interest to its right to the Cornish Foreshore, against the predatory actions of the Crown, in a private case of arbitration.

The following extracts from 'the Arbitration' show the preamble to, and the conclusions drawn from, an analysis of the Duchy Charters and other relevant material, by the Officers of the Duchy of Cornwall as part of their Preliminary Statement.

"But the full and real effect of the Duchy Charters themselves will be more satisfactorily and conclusively shown by considering the construction put upon them in early times, not only in grants and legal proceedings in which they are recited or noticed, but also by the Courts of Judicature and the Legislature of the Country."

The analysis concludes......

"In conclusion, it is submitted that the facts and authorities before referred to are sufficient to establish,-

1st. That Cornwall, like Wales, was at the time of the Conquest, and was subsequently treated in many respects, as distinct from England.

2nd. That it was held by the Earls of Cornwall with the rights and prerogatives of a County Palatine, as far as regarded the Seignory or territorial dominion.

3rd. That the Dukes of Cornwall have from the creation of the Duchy enjoyed the rights and prerogatives of a County Palatine, as far as regarded seignory or territorial dominion, and that to a greater extent than had been enjoyed by the Earls.

4th. That when the Earldom was augmented into a Duchy, the circumstances attending its creation, as well as the language of the Duchy Charter, not only support and confirm the natural presumption, that the new and higher title was to be accompanied with at least as great dignity, power, and prerogative as the Earls had enjoyed, but also afford evidence that the Duchy was to be invested with still more extensive rights and privileges.

And lastly. That the Duchy Charters have always been construed and treated, not merely by the Courts of Judicature, but also by the Legislature of the Country, as having vested in the Dukes of Cornwall the whole territorial interest and dominion of the Crown in and over the entire County of Cornwall.

Duchy of Cornwall, Somerset House, May, 1855."

As these extracts are taken from the 'Preliminary Statement' of the Duchy - an arbitration that spanned some three years! - the following extract from the Duchy should serve to show that subsequent argument strengthened, rather than weakened, the claim on behalf of the Dukes of Cornwall.

"Since this subject was under the consideration of the Law Officers and Counsel of the Duchy in the spring of last year, further searches have been made amongst the ancient records of the Country, which have resulted in the production of some additional evidence, which seems materially to support the conclusions previously arrived at, and has enabled the Duchy Officers to present the Case of His Royal Highness the Duke of Cornwall in a more precise and definite form than was done in the Preliminary Statement prepared in the spring of 1855.

Duchy of Cornwall,

Somerset House,

12th February, 1857."

Today, the official Duchy of Cornwall website opens with:

"The Duchy of Cornwall is a well-managed private estate which funds the public, charitable and private activities of The Prince of Wales and his family. The Duchy consists of around 54,424 hectares of land in 23 counties, mostly in the South West of England."

Also, very mysteriously, a few years ago this gross high-level misrepresentation was changed from a .gov.uk site to a .org site!

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If it's such a bore Chairman, why do you keep coming back ? As shown by the incredible ammount of views, it shows the very opposite of boring !

Are you afraid of something here ? Does your Englishness feel threatened ? If so, I don't know why. Or is it that like me, you and other people here are shocked by these revelations that you're not living in England ?

I say again : This is Association Football related.

Recognition brings International football from schoolboy to senior level. As a Cornishman, I find that prospect mouth watering when thinking of my Grandchildren, though angry that I have to fight for it.

NOW :angry: What's your preference ? What I and others are seeking for the benefit our our kids ? OR TO PEAK AT COUNTY YOUTH ?

You tell me your preference and what is best for Cornish Soccer Mr Chairman. I'm gagging to hear.

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Graham, I have no reason or wish to fall out with you and defend your right to voice your opinions freely. I just disagree that this is the right place for it.

I have been a contributor here since 2006 and attempted to serve my chosen club and local community for 33 years. Though a Londoner by accident of birth, I am patriotic to the local cause, frequently more so than my local born colleagues.

Nigel Martyn proved that a dedicated Cornishman can achieve, it just takes dedication.

My Season's greetings to you and yours Graham and of course all in football.

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Graham, I have no reason or wish to fall out with you and defend your right to voice your opinions freely. I just disagree that this is the right place for it.

I have been a contributor here since 2006 and attempted to serve my chosen club and local community for 33 years. Though a Londoner by accident of birth, I am patriotic to the local cause, frequently more so than my local born colleagues.

Nigel Martyn proved that a dedicated Cornishman can achieve, it just takes dedication.

My Season's greetings to you and yours Graham and of course all in football.

chairman. just let them get on with it. They simply CAN'T stop :angry2:

Go up a couple of posts and you'll see that 'south devon' made a response on the 11th December.. Then after filling us with false hope of a great new dawn, after no response, 2 days later, back comes good old kernow, swiftly followed by good old Graham with EXACTLY the same question he's been asking for the last 2017 years "why has it had so many views", even though he MUST know that the vast majority of those views would have been from himself, kernow and me. The amount of posts would be of the same majority aswell.

Just give the topic a wide berth and leave them to wax lyrical amongst themselves :angry:

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Coopsie, I know you're right about ignoring it. Guess I'm disappointed in Administration here who allow it to go on.Maybe quietly they support the cause too!

Who knows mate?. Though I'm sure if they REALLY gave a flying fart about the bore fest, they would have said something by now :unsure: .

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coopsie, i came across this thread whilst bored and browsing, and couldnt believe what i was reading, improud to be a devonian first and a englander second, ive always said if i didnt live in devon i would cornwall, i always holiday there but im shocked to think somecornishman do not think of themselves as english. when i come to cornwall i go via launceston not over the tamar so at what point are you cut off from england :)

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We are not going to fall out Chairman. You and I have enough intelligence for that and I am well aware of your excellent service to your club, but you will also know that I have always done my best for Cornish football as well. I accept that this thread has political overtones but nonetheless it is for the benefit of all Cornish football and indeed Cornish sport as a whole.

If we disagree that's fine because we are debating something unique here and it's hard for people new to this to take it on board, but I suspect a lot of people here agree with me, but as yet don't have the courage to contribute. With respect, you have again failed to answer the proposition.

Coopsie, for you to suggest that almost 3,000 views is down to about four people in absurd in the extreme.

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coopsie, i came across this thread whilst bored and browsing, and couldnt believe what i was reading, improud to be a devonian first and a englander second, ive always said if i didnt live in devon i would cornwall, i always holiday there but im shocked to think somecornishman do not think of themselves as english. when i come to cornwall i go via launceston not over the tamar so at what point are you cut off from england :)

Are you sure you don't cross the Tamar going via Launceston (A30)?

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This is sucha long thread i actually forgot what i was actually going to say at the start.

Anyways, I am cornish, born in cornwall, with cornish parents, but I am ENGLISH, i support English sport, football, rugby, cricket whatever is on, I stick to English Laws, and I went to an English school.

Yet i still believe there is something Cornish within me, But I am Still English in Nationality.

This is a good debate, although frustrating that neither KernowGB or Graham-Hart actually take anything on board from what anyone else is putting across.

It would be interesting to catch either of the two in the pub this summer supporter OUR great NATION attempting to bring OUR world cup trophy HOME :smiley20: :drink:

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Guest KernowGB

Oh dear! One gets the impression, from the response to my post, indeed all of my posts, above that it seems to sound an audio-visual alarm in the covert control room of the ‘Thought Police’, because we dare to bring up such a thing as a Cornish Identity on a Cornish Soccer Forum.

Chairman’s OTT reaction to ONE thread on this Forum, despite a seemingly laudable concern, is no less an attempt at stifling debate. Coopsie’s comments attempts a dubious mathematical solution, which doesn't stand up to scrutiny, to Graham’s point on ‘times viewed’, yet offers the most intelligent advice. I would clarify this further and say that the title of the thread is illuminated in flashing lights, with a clear health warning of danger, namely “CORNISH IDENTITY” for those so disposed.

The Cornish people are in danger of making the wrong life choices, because they have been kept ignorant of their true identity. They have every right to have this information placed before them so that they can be the ones to decide their future, instead of being manipulated, and controlled like sheep.

Another interesting snippet worth sharing with you is a comment from Robert Louis Stephenson in his book “Across the Plains” (1879)

"There were no emigrants direct from Europe – save one German family and a knot of Cornish miners who kept grimly to themselves, one reading the New Testament all day long through steel spectacles, the rest discussing privately the secrets of their old-world, mysterious race. Lady Hester Stanhope believed she could make something great of the Cornish; for my part, I can make nothing of them at all. A division of races, older and more original than Babel, keeps this close, esoteric family apart from neighbouring Englishmen. Not even a Red Indian seems more foreign in my eyes. This is one of the lessons of travel – that some of the strangest races dwell next door to you at home."

The addition of YoungPercy is welcomed. He considers himself to be English (for the reasons he gives). It is truly regrettable, but I have no problem with that and the fact that he believes that he still has something Cornish in him is very symptomatic of a deliberately destroyed Cornishness. I would simply point him, and others, to my post at #109 (Dec 5 2009, 10:34 AM). I must also point out that, it is not that I do not take on board what has been presented as an opposing view/opinion, but simply that I have througout my life, rejected the perceived credibility and legality that passes for the status quo! :SM_carton:

:c::c::c::c::c:

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I'm glad you think this a good debate and applaud you for joining it YoungPercy. I will gladly answer any questions you pose.

From the perspective of being an England fan, I'll be shouting for England next June every bit as much as you and sharing the highs and lows with my mates. Accepting the truth does not deny you your full support for England. The only difference is they are your Team and not you're Country, and that has not stopped me enjoying, watching and supporting England to the hilt one iota !

When Weber scored the equalising goal for Germany in the 89th minute in 1966, I slipped from the chair, onto my knees and cried. I was fourteen and as passionate as any England fan. When Sol Cambell's goal was disallowed against Portugal last time out, I screamed at the Referee as much and more than some others. But just as someone else here stumbled accross this thead, so I stumbled accross my nationality. Otherwise, I would be saying and feeling exactly the same as you without a shadow of a doubt, so I fully expected the kind of response this thread is getting.

I was once as ignorant of this truly incredible charade as anyone else in the soccer fraternity and generally speaking, most sports people as well as the man in the street in Cornwall, with the exception of the majority of Rugby Union fans - which for anyone who doesn't know, is recognised as our National sport - I was exactly the same as you for fifty years so I'm perfectly aware of the emotions being stirred here because I've been there and dealt with them. Not nice is it ? but don't worry, you'll get over it. I'm afraid you've no choice other than to delude yourself.

Whilst my friend KernowGB has life long knowledge of the Cornish Question, I'm sure he won't mind me saying, he knows buggerall about football. However, I do know the game and had been involved in it at all levels all my life until this shock came along. These past eight years now, I have dedicated my life to Cornish rights and won't give up until we get recognition of our true Nationality. One of the main reason's I do it, is because I visualise it as a wonderful opportunity for our Sportmen and Women, whether Team or Individual.

As for OUR Sport: Is county youth football to be the pinnacle of representative honours on offer ? Is that the best we can do for our kids ? Is that the best we can offer them ?

Think about it. They're your children.

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As for OUR Sport: Is county youth football to be the pinnacle of representative honours on offer ?

For Gods sake, NO IT ISN'T.. Most of those players will be playing for their COUNTY with the ultimate dream and aspiration of playing for their COUNTRY. They'll be watching the World Cup and thinking, "Thats where I want to be in 8 years time when our country are hosts" .

It's what EVERY boyhood footballer dreams of. FACT...... :rolleyes:

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For Gods sake, NO IT ISN'T.. Most of those players will be playing for their COUNTY with the ultimate dream and aspiration of playing for their COUNTRY. They'll be watching the World Cup and thinking, "Thats where I want to be in 8 years time when our country are hosts" .

It's what EVERY boyhood footballer dreams of. FACT......

......said the Englishman. :c:
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For Gods sake, NO IT ISN'T.. Most of those players will be playing for their COUNTY with the ultimate dream and aspiration of playing for their COUNTRY. They'll be watching the World Cup and thinking, "Thats where I want to be in 8 years time when our country are hosts" .

It's what EVERY boyhood footballer dreams of. FACT......

......said the Englishman. :c:

I have to agree with Coopsie.

The Englishman..... Born in Cornwall

Ask any child who is football mad, they will dream of playing for an English Team, for example, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, or England lining up with Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard.

Not a Cornish Team, for example, Truro lining up with, Yetton etc or even the County team.

I am sorry but i still cannot get my head around how you are so pro-cornwall and anti-England yet you are still saying that you will be supporting England, which i find really hypocritical :SM_carton:

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For Gods sake, NO IT ISN'T.. Most of those players will be playing for their COUNTY with the ultimate dream and aspiration of playing for their COUNTRY. They'll be watching the World Cup and thinking, "Thats where I want to be in 8 years time when our country are hosts" .

It's what EVERY boyhood footballer dreams of. FACT......

......said the Englishman. :c:

Ok Mr Convinced :rolleyes: , how about you start a seperate topic and ask ALL young users of the forum what their ultimate sporting dream would be or has been in the past. OR ask those of us who are more advanced in years with children of our own, to ask our kids what their ultimate dream or sporting aspiration would be?.

Would you stop your child from representing England because, in your eyes, he/she isn't English?. Even if they thought, believed or knew different?.

I have to agree with Coopsie.

No buddy, you don't HAVE to agree with me :unsure: .. You CHOOSE to agree with me.. :thumbsup:

Unfortunately I've no doubt whatsoever that you're about to hear from either Graham or kernow about how it isn't really your decision, but instead it's the decision of those that have brainwashed you throughout your inadequate and flawed educational upbringing :SM_carton:

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You both make fair points and I'm glad to answer.

Firstly, I have never forced idenity on anyone, but merely placed the truth before you. It is your decision do decide who you are. I hope this will assist you:

Nationality for anyone can be complex. Jack Charlton's Ireland is a good example, so please bear that model in mind :

If you were born in Cornwall of English parents, you are.........Cornish or English. It's your choice. Or you can have dual nationality. Again, your choice. The same goes for anyone born in Cornwall if their parents are not Cornish. It's for you to decide.

If you are born of Cornish parents outside of Cornwall eg; England, Scotland, Ireland or wherever; again, it's your choice etc, etc, etc....

However, if you were born of Cornish parents in Cornwall, you are most definately Cornish and not English, though if you wish to delude yourself otherwise : It's your choice.

In terms of representative honours: As we have no recognition to date, players are left with no option than to play for the adopted Country of their choice. Cornish rugby international Andy Reed had dual Nationality and chose to play for Scotland.

Cornish rugby legend and folk hero Brian 'Stack' Stevens played 26 times for England and six times for the British Lions. He is President of our Cornwall Commonwealth Games committee which is seeking membership of the CGF to include a Cornish team - Our birthright - Try telling Stack he's English! Rather you than me ! ! !

Also, ask our Chairman, England and GB International Athlete Dave Buzza if he's English and you will get a resounding No.

Last but not least, try telling our Vice-Chairman, former Argyle and Blackpool Professional footballer Tony Kellow, who was also voted Exeter City's greatest player of all time two years ago, that he's English ! Again, rather you than me ! ! !

To ask our kids what their ultimate dream or sporting aspiration would be Coopsie ?

To represent their Country, which as I've said is their choice, but to be aware of the facts first and foremost. Then make your choice as other Cornishmen and Women have as explained above. There is to date, no other option than to choose their preferred adopted Nation. I want that situation changed for the benefit of all, not less.

Young Percy, I have NEVER said I was anti English. I support them just as passionately as you. It's just that I UNDERSTAND they are my 'adopted' national team and they always will be until we have our own.

At the end of the day it is down to the individual to be who he or she wants to be, not me or anyone else; but make that decision based on truth, and not lies and deception.

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Guest KernowGB

I wonder how many people can remember the first 3 posts on this thread?

Firstly, we had Noel’s introduction advising, very clearly and concisely, that he was undertaking a survey of “Cornish Identity”. Note, if you will, “Cornish Identity”! The immediate response was a ‘flamer’ from ECPL. This was soon followed up, quite rightly, by DanBlazey setting the record straight.

What followed just developed into a ‘we & they’ exchange as the “we are not Cornish” brigade acting as self-appointed thought police hijacked the thread? If you are English, then please discuss your English Identity on a thread that is devoted to it. I, for my part, shall continue to point out why Cornwall and the “Cornish Identity” is unique, yet suffering from socio-political repression (that wilfully denies us our legitimacy) as happens to many other national minorities within Europe and, indeed, the world. As defined by my post at #109

I am “Cornish” (my Cultural Nation) and “European” (a political and geographical aggregation). I have a legal definition only of British citizen (also a political and geographical aggregation). The term Britain has, imho, been devalued by its contrived synonymy with England, due to the political hegemony and the inertia of its Imperialism and, for me, lacks sincerity and credibility. That is a position I take and I am well able to justify it, but that is not what this thread is about.

For those that claim some form of dual nationality or other identity, which must be conceded is legally acceptable; I would like to suggest that in a perfect world such a concept imposes no conflict. Just imagine the unthinkable and a scenario that imposes the need for you to ‘take sides’ and jump off the fence – which way would you jump, and why? That is your True Identity! This is true whether the identity is national or club. Indeed, it is true at all levels, and support for any team is ‘a choice’ amongst many. Being a supporter of ManU, for example, cannot possibly mean that the person is, necessarily, a Mancunian.

Do I understand sport? I have never been directly involved in any form of sporting activity, but I completely respect anyone that is. Would I support England? No I would not, but I would always wish anyone involved in any competitive sport to ‘have a good one’?

How about another quote?

The historical existence of the Cornish people is acknowledged within the publication "The Making of Pre-Industrial Britain" (first published in 1969) and written by T.K.Derry & M.G.Blakeway. The opening text of the publication, on page 1, provides the following quote and opening statement:

"
'The whole country of Britain is divided into four parts, whereof the one is inhabited by Englishmen, the other of Scots, the third of Welshmen, the fourth of
Cornish people
... which all differ among themselves either in tongue, either in manners, or else in laws and ordinances.'

So wrote the naturalized Italian cleric, Polydore Vergil, in a history of England which he composed at the request of the first Tudor king, Henry VII. In the present volume we shall try to trace the process by which these peoples were welded together to form the Britain of the mid-eighteenth century, whose name the youthful George III was to glory in.

"

:clapper::yahoo::c::c::c::c::c::yahoo::clapper:

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Read the whole thread?? you're joking!

I'm just saying that, in the eyes of the English government or whatever, then Cornwall is a country. Campaign all you want for a separate identity, thats fine, but until that happens, we are English. Cornish yes, but ultimately English.

Oh dear, I think we'd all better run for cover :( .. You've gone and done it now Darren mate... :rolleyes: ;)

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Guest Flintstone

More people in Cornwall talk Polish than Cornish

And I don't know how much Tax they pay either!!

You will have to think on a 'different' level to understand !

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If you are English, then please discuss your English Identity on a thread that is devoted to it.

And if you wish to continue with your mindnumbing drivel, please discuss it somewhere that is not called "Non Cornish Football Forum"...

That goes for you too Graham. You already said you don't follow sport, and never really have.. Are you REALLY surprised people have had enough of all this twonk?.

It's a bloody football forum :angry2: ..

If you and Kernow wish to talk about dreams of living in an individual nation (you already do, it's called England), please get yourselves registered on www.ineedsomethingtoclingtobecauseIdonthavealife.com and let everybody else stick to what they already know and believe.....

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For Gods sake, NO IT ISN'T.. Most of those players will be playing for their COUNTY with the ultimate dream and aspiration of playing for their COUNTRY. They'll be watching the World Cup and thinking, "Thats where I want to be in 8 years time when our country are hosts" .

It's what EVERY boyhood footballer dreams of. FACT......

......said the Englishman. :c:

I have to agree with Coopsie.

The Englishman..... Born in Cornwall

Ask any child who is football mad, they will dream of playing for an English Team, for example, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, or England lining up with Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard.

Not a Cornish Team, for example, Truro lining up with, Yetton etc or even the County team.

I am sorry but i still cannot get my head around how you are so pro-cornwall and anti-England yet you are still saying that you will be supporting England, which i find really hypocritical :SM_carton:

Graham Le Saux and Matt Le Tissier, two Channel Islanders who played for England. So what you may say, well take time out to look at the political and sporting rights and privileges that the Channel Islands enjoy. Nothing more than most Cornish Nationalist would want and (a topic that is very close to Grahams heart) enjoy recognition and participation in the Commonwealth games. I fail to see why being a Channel Islander (or Cornish) and playing for England or playing for an English team compromises you being a Channel Islander or Cornishman?

I think you will find that most professional sportsmen want to play at the top of their profession, national allegiances soon go out of the window and this is not unique to football. The Irish team has been full of English born footballers who were (probably) not good enough to play international football for England so chose to play for another country to satisfy international ambitions. In a short space of time we heard cockney or scouse accents in Jack Charltons side declaring themselves as Irish. You have an Irishman (Eion Morgan) playing cricket for England not because he doesn't feel Irish but he knows the only way he can reach the pinnacle of his chosen profession is to play test cricket for England. There are plenty of examples in rugby union of Fijians playing for New Zealand or Samoans or Tongans playing for other countries.

If you are English, then please discuss your English Identity on a thread that is devoted to it.

And if you wish to continue with your mindnumbing drivel, please discuss it somewhere that is not called "Non Cornish Football Forum"...

That goes for you too Graham. You already said you don't follow sport, and never really have.. Are you REALLY surprised people have had enough of all this twonk?.

It's a bloody football forum :angry2: ..

If you and Kernow wish to talk about dreams of living in an individual nation (you already do, it's called England), please get yourselves registered on www.ineedsomethingtoclingtobecauseIdonthavealife.com and let everybody else stick to what they already know and believe.....

Coopsie - for someone who finds the topic so boring you have spent an awful lot of time on here.

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Brilliant post Jedi :thumbsup: I had never seen the sportng analogy between Cornwall and the Channell Islands in that way before . Thanks for the useful info :thumbsup: Just for a swapsy, I found out today that Cornwall gave the World Harvest Festivals :) Yep. You never know what you're going to find out next do you ? Found out two weeks ago that Thomas Merritt from over Illogan wrote one of most famous Xmas Carols sang the World over, "Hark The Glad Sound". If only they'd told us this at School along with the rest of it.......

Anyway. Coopsie.

That goes for you too Graham. You already said you don't follow sport, and never really have..
I suppose I should start with this : http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/grahamhart/football.html

I would be pleased also if you could then go here: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/grahamhart/archive.html and at least read the Cornish Hotline archive by our very own Dave Deacon in the Sports section.

Are you REALLY surprised people have had enough of all this twonk?.

No. Just really surprised that you're really that stupid; or should that be stubborn ? It's not rocket science to see that this thread is getting around 150 views per day and growing, and you and about three other people want me to stop ? Not a cat in hell's chance Dude.

It's a bloody football forum
At last. We agree on something, so please bear this in mind when reading on.

The Ginger Jedi wrote: Coopsie - for someone who finds the topic so boring you have spent an awful lot of time on here.

He's here for many reasons Jedi. To play Devil's advocate and I'm most grateful to him for that. Because he's a long standing member and may feel it's his duty to voice the status quo. Or maybe it's because his identity has become threatened, an he's not the only one either.

Because the thread's gathering momentum, I'm not nieve enough to think that the other 146 agree with me. However, I do think it is time that the people of my game knew the truth and will see the huge benefits it will bring to Cornish Football. Having this knowledge, I therefore consider it my duty to bring it to their attention and let people mull it over ( there's no rush ) and then let them decide what would be best. Base your life on what you want, but my own is based on truth, legality and it's benefits.

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Hi Graham-I have enjoyed this topic and a good history lesson some of which I was not aware of.

Interesting point regarding The Channel Islands in The Comonwealth Games and also representing England-it makes you wonder.

I like your style 'solid defence and then the counter attack' just like the football days.

Anyway have a good festive time to you both and I will catch up with you soon.

cheers Micky

ps. Pauline wont let me respond to the topic LOL (bit heavy for me)- but we always have a look in and read your West Briton column..

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Grow some nuts Mick! Wish I could get Father on here to have a look but he's got more chance of telling me that his Betamax is broken down. His technological prowess is like Vinny Samways in front of goal!

It's compelling reading and I admire Graham's enthusiasm. The man is a legend!

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Guest KernowGB

Good to see some positive posts creeping in. :c::clapper:

There are others that post a lot of negativity on the topic, but really say nothing. Why do they bother?

I would like to post another quote which magnificently sums up this obvious lack of perception and, in particular, to propel Flintstone into the 21st century, or do I mean: to encourage the negatives to follow his advice about thinking on a 'different' level?

Bertrand Russell quote

- from "The Problems of Philosophy" 1912 (Chapter XV) :

"The value of philosophy is, in fact, to be sought largely in its very uncertainty. The man who has no tincture of philosophy goes through life imprisoned in the prejudices derived from common sense, from the habitual beliefs of his age or his nation, and from convictions which have grown up in his mind without the co-operation or consent of his deliberate reason. To such a man the world tends to become definite, finite, obvious; common objects rouse no questions, and unfamiliar possibilities are contemptuously rejected. As soon as we begin to philosophize, on the contrary, we find, as we saw in our opening chapters, that even the most everyday things lead to problems to which only very incomplete answers can be given. Philosophy, though unable to tell us with certainty what is the true answer to the doubts which it raises, is able to suggest many possibilities which enlarge our thoughts and free them from the tyranny of custom. Thus, while diminishing our feeling of certainty as to what things are, it greatly increases our knowledge as to what they may be; it removes the somewhat arrogant dogmatism of those who have never travelled into the region of liberating doubt, and it keeps alive our sense of wonder by showing familiar things in an unfamiliar aspect."

:c::c::c::c::c:

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Someone should do a survey to see how many cornish people like myself are still in cornwall in my town of newquay i doubt very few all you hear ere are scousers brummies and the yorkshire voice we seem to be a minority in our own county if your cornish on the housing list and your english you will get the priority i no so many english who come down here and get a place no time at all i had to wait 14 years to get a flat so i am quite bitter about how cornish people are treated there thats cleared the air Happy christmas to everyone even the english . :c:

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Guest KernowGB

Southdevon, at a local level you are absolutely correct, but the issue within our Cornish Duchy is the added complication of being at a national level. The whole essence of this thread really! Your concern is English v English, but ours is English v Cornish and the obvious consequence this has for 'Cornish' rights, recognition and future.

What a nation does to itself is for themselves to resolve. What one nation does to another nation (as in our case!) is entirely a different matter and should be the concern of all open-minded people. I feel sure that there will be some negative responses to this, but I can only recommend that they read all my previous posts, particularly, the previous one.

:c::c::c::c::c:

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Hiya Mike ! Long time no contact. I'm so glad you find it interesting reading. I hope I see you soon. It's been too long. :thumbsup:

Gareth - The Cheque's in the post. :c:

Someone should do a survey to see how many cornish people like myself are still in cornwall. in my town of newquay, i doubt very few. all you hear ere are scousers brummies and the yorkshire voice. we seem to be a minority in our own county . if your cornish on the housing list and your english you will get the priority. i no so many english who come down here and get a place no time at all. i had to wait 14 years to get a flat so i am quite bitter about how cornish people are treated there. thats cleared the air. Happy christmas to everyone even the english .

Yes, recognition would bring far more benefits than just football 100% Cornish. I was once asked how I would describe Newquay. " Little England " was my reply. It has lost it's Cornishness, and it's people have suffered more than any other town or area in the Duchy. Very sad, but it's been like that for as long as I can remember and I fully understand your feelings. There is a survey coming up by way of the 2011 Census. The fight for a Cornish tick box continues.

Nice to hear from you Martin and I return your greetings to you and your family.

Anyway, International Football in Cornwall. That is what kicked it off for me and why I'm here. I am really interested in everyones thoughts on this. Is it just me that can visualise the opportunties it woud bring ? Also bearing in mind the campaign for a National Stadium. http://stadiumforcornwall.com/

Or would you rather continue the debate by asking a question on our identity or our culture ? Although maybe you have enough to contemplate for the time being.

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Guest KernowGB

Some more quotes that I believe are very relevant to this topic, in that they help us to understand, define, and defend, our Cornish Identity, are given here; each with an appropriate comment:

When a nation goes down, or a society perishes, one condition may always be found; they forgot where they came from. They lost sight of what had brought them along.
Carl Sandburg

The key to this quote, with regard to the Cornish nation, is really to seek to understand why they are forgetting, and losing sight of. In the Cornish case, subsequent generations have been progressively denied formal access to their history. Anything remotely focussing on the Cornish historical and constitutional existence has been, and is being, airbrushed out of the public's perception (see post #109).

A nation cannot ‘go down’; it can only be ‘destroyed’ by externally driven attrition, as in conquest or genocide. The first certainly does not apply to Cornwall; therefore it must be the second. As long as there are those that claim to be of the Cornish nation, then that nation, and national identity, exists. This state of affairs is covered by my second quote:

A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again.
George Bernard Shaw

We have the right, and the power, to restore our Cornish historical legitimacy!

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Wow. I've really pissed on your boots have'nt I Coopsie ? :D

Rather than come here to respond, you go spamming all over the place on this website to seek support. How utterly pathetic. Talk about burying your head. You really do take the biscuit. :D:D:D

Unbelievable! :SM_carton:

Update:

Coopsie: Believe me NORTH DEVON DWELLER, that was NOT a dig from me in your direction, or the direction of any English users of this forum. It was a bitchy snipe at another topic in the Non Cornish section where a couple of Cornish men have voiced their 'disapproval' of English folk and English suffocation

Nowhere on this thread will you find a pro Cornish post voicing their " 'disapproval' of English folk and English suffocation". Your POV is so ridiculous, you now have to revert to lies to hold your head up......

your own ass that is. Now that's what I call suffocation.

I 'm lovin the hole your digging for yourself Coopsie. It's just gets deeper and deeper. :D:D :D

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Wow. I've really pissed on your boots have'nt I Coopsie ?

Rather than come here to respond, you go spamming all over the place on this website to seek support. How utterly pathetic. Talk about burying your head. You really do take the biscuit. :D:D:D

Unbelievable!

Update:

Coopsie: Believe me NORTH DEVON DWELLER, that was NOT a dig from me in your direction, or the direction of any English users of this forum. It was a bitchy snipe at another topic in the Non Cornish section where a couple of Cornish men have voiced their 'disapproval' of English folk and English suffocation

Nowhere on this thread will you find a pro Cornish post voicing their " 'disapproval' of English folk and English suffocation". Your POV is so ridiculous, you now have to revert to lies to hold your head up......

your own ass that is. Now that's what I call suffocation.

I 'm lovin the hole your digging for yourself Coopsie. It's just gets deeper and deeper. :D

My god you're a jumped up old fart aren't you. Is your life really so empty that you have to commit yourself to pathetically attempting to revive the past just so that you feel you'll have some sort of identity?.

How is me explaining a comment to someone who misunderstood me on another topic "spamming" or "seeking support".?. What the hell do I need to seek support for?. You truly are an insecure old codger aren't you?. Is that why a good majority of your posts have been between 12am and 5am? Because you have to keep going to check that you've locked your front and back door?. :rolleyes:

You say "Nowhere on this thread will you find a pro Cornish post voicing their " 'disapproval' of English folk and English suffocation".. Really??. I simply can't be arsed to check who said it BUT I clearly remember a statement along the lines of "I hate the English and the way they come down here and buy a house but never live in it", AND another saying "the English come down here and get a council flat but I've been waiting for ? years and can't get one"..

So, NO LIES by me either then :rolleyes:

Get a life old fella, discover your own identity and stop wasting your time trying to create one from the past. I don't know who appointed you as the "forum police" but I'm fairly sure that I'm entitled to say what I want, when I want until the moderators tell me otherwise?..

In the meantime, how about you/we grow old gracefully and look forward to the unquestionable inevitability that Cornwall as a country faced a LONG TIME ago... Death, cease to exist, become defunct, become a thing of the past :D . Of course, there is a difference between you and I dying, and the Cornwall of old!! Once we're gone, nobody will waste their time and their life pathetically attempting to revive the unrevivable :rolleyes:

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Am I the only person to regret seeing this topic labour on inviting personal postings? It has never been about Football and I think the Moderators should have killed it long ago.

There has been an element of Racism and should be abhorred by all right thinking people. <_<

Racism? What are you on about? There's a post that says when you leave Cornwall you enter 'civilisation', I suppose that could be interpreted as racist.

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Racism? What are you on about? There's a post that says when you leave Cornwall you enter 'civilisation', I suppose that could be interpreted as racist.

Think you'll find it said, "when you leave Cornwall you have to pay to enter civilisation".. It was then explained that the statement was about how things happen if they are needed, unlike down here where a town of some 38000 people (Penzance) had to wait over 30 years for a leisure centre to be allowed to be built. Or how it took lord knows how long for a bypass to take traffic away from Gossmoor etc etc..

Across that border, civilisation IS building and improving. Down here they do all they can to cling to a past and stifle advancement because of a few granite walls along the roadside.

That's NOT racist, it's FACT...

Racism is pretty much described and accepted as being something "usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others".. Tell me where in my statement of "when you leave Cornwall you have to pay to enter civilisation", do I say that there is a superior race with the right to rule others?. If you like, I can save you the pain of thought, and just tell you the answer is NOWHERE...

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There has been complaint that the English get prefernce over others in local housing matters.

This is a topic unconnected to Football and the Administration are out of order to allow it to continue.

Unless, of course, they are glad to have this site used for reasons other than football.

:clapper: ..

You're just putting yourself against the wall ready to face the firing squad though chairman :unsure: .. You just KNOW that you'll get a response of "this is a cornish subject" etc etc...

You ARE right chairman :thumbsup:

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