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RESPECT, there is none


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Respect is a long-term FA programme to improve behaviour at all levels, both on and off the pitch. The FA's Respect programme aims to tackle abusive and unacceptable behaviour towards referees and young people.

That was the aim of the FA, but is it working? Sadly I think not!

Whilst passions can run high in a game and there is nothing wrong with that, an acceptable level of behaviour should be expected of all those who participate.

I recently spent the evening at Plymouth Parkway, to watch their home game against Bodmin Town. Despite this being a high level game within the league, I personally thought both teams conducted themselves well throughout the match. That is, apart from the sending off of the Bodmin Town full-back. I was close enough to hear the player clearly make the following remark to the linesman. "You have had a f**cking sh*t game, c*nt. I have obviously not fully spelt the words spoken, as I do not wish to offend anyone. Sadly, the response from the linesman, well there wasn't one. The foul language spoken by the player concerned could be clearly heard by all nearby, which included women and children.

RESPECT......

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If the England captain can get away with (at end of defeat at Leicester) then obviously the FA/UEFA/FIFA are not serious about it. Same goes for the "professional foul". Make it a sending off offence and it stops (as proved when used in England, but can't remember the year, maybe mid 90s). The tools are there for the authorities to use but they won't. At least sin-bins would be a start!

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This is a major problem for local Match officials, local leaders of match officials and the Referee's Association. It has been a problem for a number of years and will continue to be a problem, due totally to the inconsistencies of match officials, who mean well on the day but do nor seem to grasp the bigger picture.

All clubs including Parkway have had players or officials dismissed for slightly less colourful language, then the next match the same thing occurs in a game and nothing is done about it. Referee's 'excuse' is, 'if I dismissed all those who swore there would be no one left on the pitch' - well yes - but the message would soon get across.

It appears that the tolerance levels of Referee's is the difference, some stand a little more abuse than others, then like the players have their breaking point and react with dismissal - surely when these reports are submitted, doesn't anyone in authority say to the Referee - so this was the only occasion that swearing occurred in the match, surely not - if not why did you not discipline anyone else.

The match officials are very good at, kicking the ball away offences, fouls outside the penalty area, gaining ground for free kicks and throw ins, wasting time, but, are not able to deal consistently with the more serious offences. What is the point of the assessors in this, they are at most matches. The referees should be told from the top down, they are poorly led it would seem.

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Sorry mockey Jackson, the player concerned did swear. It was clear to hear by several people within the area where the player left the field of play, by the linesman.

Whilst I can understand players being frustrated by their performance, there is no need to use foul and abusive language to officials or the supporters.

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Many if not most of you will disagree with me I know , but I believe that there are 3 issues here . One is the declining standards of behaviour generally in this country , many people think that this sort of behaviour is acceptable and will condemn anyone who thinks otherwise . Secondly whilst professional footballers continue to argue with officials and behave in the manner they do and get away with it players at the lower levels will copy them . Thirdly , as has already been said on here , while there is a wide range of what referees will accept at the lower levels the problem will continue .

I accept that it's easy to be critical but I believe that the FA's Respect campaign is a farce .Thousand of pounds have been wasted to no great effect . Being of a Corinthian type of sportsman I have always believed that you should play the game , give everything you've got , go down fighting ( no literally ) , enjoy the challenge and shake hands at THE END of the game . The FA come up with the total opposite with organised shaking of hands etc . before the game . Nothing wrong with that you all say , but what use is it ? .It hasn't improved the game as regards cheating , abuse and foul language one iota .

Many referees I know think that until the FA sort out the game at the top level nothing will improve the game at the lower levels .

One problem with the foul language that very few people consider is the effect that it has on people living next to football grounds .How long before some village grounds are closed because of complaints from residents about the problem . Seems stupid I know , but in todays society anything can happen . A cricket club was forced to move grounds recently because 2 or 3 people living next to the ground complained about the hard ball being a potential danger coming into their property . Only one step away from complaints about bad language , and once it's happened in one place it will spread .

Finally , having said all this the way the game is going and amount of clubs that are folding through lack of players perhaps it's not worth worrying about and the game as we know it will waste away .

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I agree with all you have said Fenman. Unfortunately the problems we have in football have their roots in the society of today. I was a Secondary School Teacher for 35 years before retiring six years ago. I was lucky that I taught in two schools where I was given great respect by pupils and their parents. Unfortunately today "our rights" have gone too far to the detriment of ones responsibilities. Too many parents shirk their responsibilities of teaching their children how to behave from the moment they are born, not leaving it for the schools to do !

The sanctions that schools can give now are now so restricted so that many kids regard a suspension as a holiday, and many parents blame their children's poor behaviour on the school.

Recently an under 8 Sunday football team has had to disband due to behaviour of not the children but of their parents on the touchline. A number of the children were so upset with their parents behaviour they were crying on the pitch. Unfortunately this is the type of role model many adults are setting, so consequently the problem will get worse. Soccer's ills have now spread into Cricket and Rugby which used to be the models of sportsmanship.

The F.A's Respect Campaign will be unsuccessful if they are rigorously consistent in dealing with issues firmly. Referees and their Assistants need to be stronger and not turn a "blind eye" to unacceptable behaviour and bad language, especially that which is aimed in their direction.

Finally FIFA ! This corrupt organisation needs to be dismantled and its corrupt officers taken to task and thrown in jail for the game to get back its true values.

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I agree with all you have said Fenman. Unfortunately the problems we have in football have their roots in the society of today. I was a Secondary School Teacher for 35 years before retiring six years ago. I was lucky that I taught in two schools where I was given great respect by pupils and their parents. Unfortunately today "our rights" have gone too far to the detriment of ones responsibilities. Too many parents shirk their responsibilities of teaching their children how to behave from the moment they are born, not leaving it for the schools to do !

The sanctions that schools can give now are now so restricted so that many kids regard a suspension as a holiday, and many parents blame their children's poor behaviour on the school.

Recently an under 8 Sunday football team has had to disband due to behaviour of not the children but of their parents on the touchline. A number of the children were so upset with their parents behaviour they were crying on the pitch. Unfortunately this is the type of role model many adults are setting, so consequently the problem will get worse. Soccer's ills have now spread into Cricket and Rugby which used to be the models of sportsmanship.

The F.A's Respect Campaign will be unsuccessful if they are rigorously consistent in dealing with issues firmly. Referees and their Assistants need to be stronger and not turn a "blind eye" to unacceptable behaviour and bad language, especially that which is aimed in their direction.

Finally FIFA ! This corrupt organisation needs to be dismantled and its corrupt officers taken to task and thrown in jail for the game to get back its true values.

Sorry missed a word - the FA's Respect Campaign will be unsuccessful unless they are rigorously.............

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What? A Bodmin player failing to control himself? Bodmin failing to control their players? Surely not, this cannot be true. They are always the victims if you believe Bodmin representatives. Oh and their no 1 fan from the local rag. Bet this incident doesn't reach the Bodmin Guardian, sorry the Cornish Guardian this week though. Pot, kettle.....

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Pastyman i was referring to Midlandlilywhites post only.

Please take note though of the current fair play league. The 2 clubs who are currently sitting in the top 2 are indeed st Austell for whom i spent many years and Bodmin where I am Chairman

http://www.swpleague.co.uk/Stats_&_Facts/discipline_records

Its simple weather you be a manager or a player swearing at officials is not on!! The league is already short of officials, I do not condone it and personally feel that swearing at any official should result in a red card and a ban.

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Television coverage must take its share of the blame for poor behaviour: why do they need to show close-ups of players at all? Players are usually snotting, spitting or swearing - none of which is pleasant viewing for anyone and certainly not something you'd want any youngsters to copy from these so-called role models!

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Fair pjay league has nothing to do with it. That's just bookings and sendings off, not a total of swear words.

The whole respect thing is a total joke. Shake hands with someone before the game and scrap with them ten minutes later and refuse to shake hands at the end of the game, but hey, it's a box ticked cod they shook hands before the game

Only when referees start to issue cards for foul and abusive language at levels above junior league will anything happen.

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I guess all of us with an interest in football, want consistency. Sadly lack of consistency frustrates players, managers and followers.

I agree with you St Darren, the fair play league doesn't reflect the amount of foul and abusive language.

As the Football Association lacks what it takes to tackle the problem, perhaps the Devon & Cornwall Football Associations should find what it takes.

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Can I suggest that club Chairmen and Committees have a role to play here. In my experience as a referee for 20 years, it is rarely these people who cause problems, and they usually go out of their way to show respect to others. But they also rarely seem willing to grasp the mettle of dealing with the managers/assistants/players who they employ. My boss wouldn't let me speak to others like that (OK I am a teacher so it wouldn't be a good idea anyway!). I often argued that if a manager/coach was busy abusing officials then they weren't actually doing the job that they were being paid for!

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Referees are self employed.

Also please stop going on about inconsistencies in referee decisions. The game of football, just like life, does not move in a straight line. No two games are never alike. The only thing people see is the conduct and consequences and not the circumstances. It is these circumstances which make identicle conducts significantly different and are dealt with differently.

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I accept that you have a point mrlaw18, in that, on field decisions re a number of offences do differ from game to game, but foul language is simply foul language and to say 'if I sent everyone off who swore there would be no players left' is not the answer. Its a bit like the 'rugby scrums' in the penalty area, must be numerous penalties per game, referees must be under instruction not to deal with it as a penalty, as outside the area fouls and yellow cards are issued for shirt pulling, quite rightly so - what's the difference there ? is the answer ' if I gave a penalty every time a shirt was pulled in the area the game would have 14 goals', or would the offences be cut down.

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Self employed or not. You still get paid for doing a job by the fa

With regards to inconsistencies. Last night sterling got booked for holding a player back and tugging a shirt, then the Basel player did the same thing to the keeper yet no card. These are the reasons why players and fans get so frustrated as there is no consistency on easy things like that

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If a player says the 'C' word out loud in frustration to themself would you send them off or caution them?

If a player uses the 'C' at player who had almost broke their legs in a late reckless challenge what would you do?

If you give a penalty you are effectively awarding a goal. Yes, a foul is a foul no matter were it occurs. It comes down to the standard of proof. The referee has to work on facts based on his sences. Outside the box the referee can get away with making a decision based on the balance of probabilities because in this area freekicks generally have a less effect on the game. Inside the box the referee needs to be be sure beyond reasonable doubt that it is foul. After all the game is about who can score the most goals. The referee must not guess when a penalty is involved the same goes for red cards (down grade it a yellow).

The game should only be stopped if the foul is significant enough to stop the game (if no advantage). So just because there is shirt pulling does it mean that the game should be stopped everytime a shirt is pulled? Again circumstances.

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The FA does not pay us the home clubs do so that mean we are employed by the home club?

Regarding the game last night I did not see it. Maybe the card was more for the consequence of his actions i.e. prevented a promising attach towards goal rather than what he actually did.

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I think that is were the problems lies. Its the interpretation of the laws. Some will interpret the law to the letter, some more objectively and others will use both depending on which law is being applied.

The 'last man' is also not mentioned in laws but people argue that because they are 'the last man' its an automatic red card.

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It's not 'last man' it's denying a clear goal scoring opportunity isn't it

What's your take on handball? Surely you only have deliberate and accidental. There's nothing in between. A deliberate handball is a yellow card and an accidental handball is not a free kick. Yet not every handball is punished with a yellow card but it must be deliberate.

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Again nothing in the laws to say that handball is a yellow card. Its only a yellow if deemed 'unsporting'.

I aways look for a reason not to give handball rather than giving it. Things like player proximity, automatic reflex reaction etc...

Deliberate means international and there are two types.Direct (result was the aim or purpose) and indirect (the foresight of virtual certainty of it happening when it was not the aim or purpose, the so called 'hands in the un-natural' position and the clear movement of the hand moving towards the ball etc...).

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My thoughts are the same as the majority on here. It is a problem and in the case mentioned above the player concerned deserved to be showed a red card. It also disappoints me that the AR did not say anything to the referee at the time.

So what are we all going to do about it?

Sending players off will get the message across

Education...what I have found is that players etc and referees do not talk to each other enough away from the match arena. We all have our own regular meetings but is it worth periodicaly players, managers and referees meeting up and discuss issues adversely effecting the game?

Worst case scenario, counselling for the persons whom have a very poor descipline record (extreme I know just an idea)!

Things need to change at the bottom not at the top. If the next generation of players learn that bad conduct will not be excepted then they will then grow into role models. The pros will still get paid if they get sent off and the fines they get are pence to them.

just my thoughts...

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mrlaw18 - The problem with, that players and referee's do not talk to each other enough ,is because there are not the referee's around now who used to play a lot of football and therefor are not aware of 'the game' and unable to discuss football in practical terms.

They are instructed on the laws of the game, but many have no real idea what the game is all about. Many are too young, lacking in experience of the game and the people at the top want to push them for advancement.

The authorities brought in age barriers to referee's not the clubs or players, you would solve 'the next generation' problem if you dealt with it now, I think the word is 'discipline'.

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As far as i am aware there is no age barriers as this is now discrimination. If you are fit and able to do the job then age is not a factor.

Playing football and refereeing are two different roles. Although I am a big fan of ex-players becoming referees because of their experience of the game this, in my opinion, is not essential. Knowing the laws and applying them are two very different things.

Good referees have the experience of law application. They got that expereience by learning from mistakes and talking to other referees and even players/managers.

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mrlaw18, we will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid, some do have a 'holier than thou' attitude. A while ago I referred to them in football as 'The Untouchables', we can publicly criticize players, managers, club officials for not being up to the job on the day, they can also do that to each other, in a polite yet firm way, but as soon as any of those say that about a match official, the wrath of the FA come's down on them. I am sure some match officials think they are laying down the law of the land as opposed to laws of a game.

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I recently saw a Captain booked for asking the Ref why the game was not stopped and no free-kick, let alone a card when one of his players had a boot raked down his face. Three clear stud marks from just by the side of the eye, across the cheek and down to the chin, the player was lucky not to lose an eye.

The same Captain had complained when he had his shin raked by the same opponent, but the Ref ignored that. If showing ones frustration at a Ref decision is dissent, then we are going to see a hell of a lot more cards.

I have seen three bad refs this season (including one where my side actually won the game), common sense appears to be left in the changing rooms at times by players and officials, games are being ruined by poor decision making, which in turn allows players to get away with fouls, but cards dished out for alleged dissent.

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As a league management member I know how common it is to be blamed for everything that is wrong within a league , even things like clubs folding through lack of players . Most of the criticism comes through ignorance of rules and comes from people who in the words of my near neighbour Henry Blofeld " fart before their arse is ready " ( pardon my language ) . As a result it may be unfair of me to agree with you about the FA , both nationally and county .However during the course of my long life I have noticed how various organisations seem to be removed from reality .They create their own phrases and language that only they understand . As a result when they produce a report or paper very few people understand what they really mean . ( try understanding an electricity tariff or the complicated BT telephone bill ) .The FA to my mind have fallen into this system in recent years to my mind . For example every January the our county FA hold an all day meeting where all the football leagues have to send at least 3 members .This is men's , women and youth leagues . Representatives of the national FA are also in attendance . One would think that one of the most important this to discuss would be discipline and the alarming shortage of players , particularly young players . It very rarely is , as far as Respect goes all we hear about is the equipment that the FA have sponsored to keep spectators away from the touchline etc. To discuss reducing bad language and violence on the pitch is a waste of time because it's a no go area particularly when the professional game is mentioned . One would have thought that an organisation that relies on people ( or stakeholders as they refer them ) in order to justify their job would be anxious to know why there are fewer of them . But quite the opposite , someone nationally comes up with a brilliant idea of having a minimum age of 16 to play adult football . The national FA's representative said that they felt that it wasn't right for people of 15 to be mixing with grown up's .So at a stroke a large proportion of clubs have lost their lifeline of young players . I don't know what the situation is in Devon and Cornwall but we see very few 16, 17 or 18 year old players here now .

Anyway to get back to the original point I don't believe that the FA will ever have the sense to clamp down on cheating or abuse at the top level .

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Who would be a referee. What people do not seem to understand is that the referee officiating at your level is there because that is the level he or she has reached. Unfortunately swearing appears to be the norm in todays world. I have no problem with that and the referee should admonish a player for it. Unless it is directed at him/her then an admonishment should be given. The problem usually arises when a player feels he has been badly fouled and the referee does not think so. I was at the Plymouth Argyle v Lewes ladies match yesterday when the referee seemed to have forgotton that tackling from behind had been banned years ago. This suited Lewes as they were the main protaganists. And yes an Argyle player was crudely felled from behind and left in agony on the ground for ten minutes and yet not only did he not ignore the player writhing in agony but he allowed the game to continue until the ball eventually went out of play. Thankfully Argyle didn't berate the referee unlike many teams who I have seen where the bench challenge every decision made. My point is that referees can be their own worst enemies if they don't deal with a situation when it happens. It would appear that the referee was a non nonsense defender who obviously thought that any tackle by a defender no matter how crude was ok in his eyes. Thankfully for Argyle they held their composure We see so often players cautioned for foul language yet the official misses the obvious foul which then makes players angry. On another point is it not time that match officials clamped down on the ranting and ravings from the dug outs. Perhaps if they solved that and sent the offenders from the field then it would not see players reacting to their benches.

It is a serious problem but their are reasons for foul and abusive language. It is a social problem but is an expletive not a reaction to something that a player feels aggrieved about. And should the referee not feel that he has missed something. But again I say referees are at the lower levels because that is where their ability is at. We need them or the game cannot survive. But commonsense must prevail on all sides and this absolute nonsense of RESPECT has to be binned. And why are not clubs more severely punished for the antics of their players/management and fans. If they could kick out players and managers who do not conform. It would make life a lot easier for our match officials if they did not do that and kick out the thugs in the dugout.

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Have so enjoyed reading the comments on here relating to my original post.

When I was a small child, I was told that swearing just showed a total lack of volcabulary by those doing so. Judging by my experiences, I think that is so true and in the main, lack any sort of breeding.

I feel so sorry for some of the referees and their assistants, as I wonder how they manage to stand up, with such little back bone. In a word, they are totally spineless, as I as a female would NOT tolerate being spoken to in such a manner.

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Hi Keith, foul and abusive language is a straight red, I will issue a warning to players when the language is getting OTT but if no notice is taken then a straight red follows, the only thing I can say in defence of referee`s is that an experienced referee needs to see the words being spoken as well as hearing them. It is an inexperienced referee who hears the words turns around and red cards the wrong player. Another point is managers and club officials use torrents of foul language and in theory they should set an example to their players but they seem totally out of control at times, recently I watched a match where both sets of managers etc shouted every imaginable foul word to the referee and that was in front of a large crowd who could not have failed to hear it and as you say the public should not have to endure that language and behaviour.

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Of course, B. Manning is correct in stating that foul or abusive language is a straight red - and perhaps here lies the problem! If a player ignores an initial warning, most referees would turn a "deaf ear" to avoid issuing a red card, unless it was directed at them. However, if further, inappropriate language is used and was punished by a yellow card, the player involved has to avoid committing any yellow card offences for the remainder of the game. In my opinion, foul or abusive language could be regarded as either unsporting behaviour or dissent - depending on the situation - and so be punished by a yellow card. I know it's not within the "letter of the Law" but it's better than ignoring it or handing out fistfuls of red cards.

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The laws are there as a guide and it is the interpretation of these laws which causes the problems.

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the

following seven offences:

(6) using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures (Laws Of The Game 2014/2015 FIFA page 41)

By interpreting this to the letter of the law it suggests that everytime a player uses offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures they are sent off. The game will not last 10 mins because players use foul language out of frustration almost most of the time. Also note that nothing is mentioned about whether it is aimed at at anyone. I think this method of interpretation is not what the author of the laws wanted this law to be applied. I agree with what John Mead is saying. Deal with this reasonably and in accordence with the level of seriousness of the situation i.e. talking to players upto the sending off of players for the most serious. In the case which was mentioned at the very start of this topic it is a srtaight red card because of its seriousness.

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