ontheball2014 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Given the fantastic turnaround in fortunes at St Austell in recent seasons, do other major clubs in the county have any ambition to emulate their success or are they just happy to live from season to season and look on in admiration? Given the history of such clubs as Falmouth Town, St Blazey, Liskeard Athletic, Newquay and Saltash United, do they draw any inspiration from St Austell? Hard work, enthusiasm and some fundamental business ideas can produce what has been achieved at St Austell, but it would seem the clubs I have mentioned lack some or all of these. Their grounds have degenerating infrastructure and what have any of them won in the life of the Carlsberg South West Premier League, in a word, nothing! Is it not time for these clubs to take a very hard look at themselves at ask why they are just about surviving? I am very proud to be Cornish and truly admire what St Austell are achieving, but the clubs I have mentioned are the lifeblood of Cornish football and we need them to be inspired. Could the same success be brought to Falmouth, St Blazey, Liskeard, Newquay or Saltash? Is there a blueprint? Do they need major surgery behind the scenes at these clubs? SUPPORTERS, VOICE YOUR OPINIONS. CLUBS, VOICE YOUR OPINIONS Standing still is not an option, it leads to stagnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boney Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Football has changed. You need to accept it and as you say admire clubs who have done well. Some teams struggle to get 11 players on a Saturday!...much less having aspirations to play at a higher level...which thanks to the FA...is not that simple anymore as your ground has to meet the required standards...lights for evening games.....male and female referee changing rooms etc etc. Also what about the cost for fuel for the coach/car to make those long away journeys? Even Bideford who play at a much higher level couldn't raise a team for a Tues away game because a few players are teachers etc! And that's another thing...some players are normal...they have bills to play....play football on Sat...or work to pay the bills?? I played for Liskeard & Saltash in the Western League.... and Barnstaple...and Exmouth...it was fun, however...you will find that on a Sat...there is more interest and a bigger crowd for Torpoint vs Millbrook...or St Blazey vs St Austell (old SW League) than Saltash vs Calne...or Liskeard vs Bristol Manor Farm. No matter what your blueprint and vision for the future....just enjoy what St Austell has achieved in 2014/15. I see them being featured in many quiz night questions! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leedsunited Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Also St.Austell have done very well in the FA Vase, which was a competition many clubs from the swpl set up had entered. At present if they dont take promotion to the Western league that surely puts them in the same place as other clubs that had the opportunity to go up? Wheres the ambition in that. What im saying is lets see how ambitious they are come August & what league they will be competeing in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUGWASH Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Dear oh dear oh dear. St.Austell , St,Austell , its not all about ST.Austell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't measure ambition solely on promotion up through the leagues. To be able to compete at local level successfully would a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leedsunited Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Define succesfully? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Interesting points ontheball. We had a committee meeting last night at Liskeard and had approximately 15 people there with a few apologies. That, to me is moving forward.We have been given the Senior and Junior cup finals to host this year, that, to me is moving forward. We have won more league games than a couple of seasons added together, that, to me is moving forward and finally we will be making a couple of announcements in the coming weeks that will lead to the club expanding which is also moving forward. None of this, however needs to be measured in promotion, cup wins or league wins. So as leedsunited states above, I think it is how you measure success that is important.MQX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I agree Keith and when you hear the financial difficulties that some clubs are in you wonder how they manage to keep going. Ontheball has, as I stated, mentioned a couple of interesting points and Im sure that the replies will reflect this.MQx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leedsunited Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I also agree Keith but until they actually take promotion they will be no different than Bodmin, St.Blazey of old & Parkway last year. Thats the point im making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUGWASH Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Not this old chestnut again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 If there we're a queue of willing volunteers, advertisers and sponsors at every club, then ambitions would be raised across all sports. Simply not enough people and cash to go round round. St Blazey and Bodmin both guilty in recent years of spending big for no gain, the Vase brings other benefits rather than a big prize pot, unless you win it outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Both Keith B and Martin McHugh have understood my post, but sorry leedsunited, you have not. Why "push" clubs into being promoted to a higher and distant league, when doing so might well have serious implications financially? I define being successful, as being able to compete in a league with a chance of doing well. Competing in cups, with a chance of winning. Running a financially viable club that has a reasonable bank balance, to cover eventualities. A match day programme worthy of its name. Good local sponsorship from local businesses. It is surely not "rocket science" to understand what a successful and well run club is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 It's about being sustainable. I'll judge st austell' success in 5 years time if they're at a higher level and still attracting the players they are at the moment. Same for clubs that get promoted from junior to senior and combo to SWL level. Getting there is the easy thing, staying there is the challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish brazilian Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 If success is merely defined by league postion (eg top half of the table), then for every successful club clearly there must be one that's unsuccessful! However all clubs can make progress or "move forward" for example by Improving their financial standing or by updating their ground or facilities, or by developing junior teams etc. etc.... For me, as the appalling Robbie Savage would say, if a club in the lower levels of the pyramid can become a significant part of its local community and, in particular, engage local youngsters of both sexes in playing or supporting, then that club is successful. Other things being equal, then the bigger the local community in terms of chimney pots and the more involved they become in their local team, then the more successful that club should be in terms of on-the-field achievement. However, as at the very top, when money comes in from elsewhere, then the position becomes distorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Windmill On The Shirt Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 We are always improving the ground at The Mill and one day will want to go up the leagues when everything is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 [quote name="ontheball2014" post="289223" timestamp="1425408348 I define being successful, as being able to compete in a league with a chance of doing well. Competing in cups, with a chance of winning. Running a financially viable club that has a reasonable bank balance, to cover eventualities. A match day programme worthy of its name. Good local sponsorship from local businesses. .[/quote] So why have you mentioned saltash ? I'm pretty sure they are guaranteed to push the league winners each year. That could be seen as successful. As for liskeard they have taken a step back to eventually make bigger steps forwards. That could be seen as successfull. Falmouth, they don't pay the ridciculous money year after year with no return, yet still compete in the SW premier league, that also could be seen as successfull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Ok Crusty, Saltash are currently league leaders at the moment, but if St Austell win all their games in hand, the title will be theirs. Bodmin too are never to be discounted. From all accounts the Saltash squad are NOT paid big money and to be leading the league at this stage of the season, they have to be admired. But having visited Saltash on the odd occasion, the ground looks tired and you could count the number of sign boards around the ground on two hands. You mention Falmouth, have you been to Falmouth to watch a match in recent seasons. The ground is decaying, the grandstand in decaying and the team are in the bottom quarter. Liskeard were relegated! As they didn't have the funds to field a stronger side to remain in the Premier League. You have not mentioned Newquay, are they really setting the world alight? I believe all the clubs mentioned in my post should look at St Austell and ask themselves a big question. St Austell have had a major turnaround in fortunes, could we do the same? The fortunes on the field are determined by the strength and the enthusiasm of the management team. Do these clubs possess these qualities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Just to put the record straight !!"Liskeard were relegated! As they didn't have the funds to field a stronger side to remain in the Premier League"Liskeard have not, and are not struggling with finance. The wage bill was not a problem, the problem was the performance of players looking for high wages. Our decision was made to avoid paying players lots of money and to attempt to attract more local players and sponsors, both of which have worked.The plan came from the management and was put before the committee a long time ago and is working well at the moment. Liskeard is often quoted as being a great club in the past, I think its a great club now!MQx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFan Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Liskeard are a great club, I think most clubs are, especially those that are willing to help others, as many do. I've just read the promotion hopefuls, surely you can't see your selfs (Liskeard) getting the promotion spot/s, so was wandering how you would be able to get back to the SWPL Prem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 There was a deadline date to apply for promotion and we decided to apply just in case !!MQx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUGWASH Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Nice one MCQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFan Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Fair one Martin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 A very good topic to discuss. So what are the problems. The first is that in todays world of seven days a week working, gone are the days of finishing work on a Friday and looking forward to either playing on a Saturday or watching in convivial surroundings. Many people have cars today so the family tends to come first before anything else. This means let us say playing for Saltash at Penzance we are talking time. 75 miles to the destination can take sometimes over two hours there and two hours back. Let alone the cost. What if the wife has a job or the player has to work on a Saturday morning, or the kids play Saturday morning sports. So when a player gets married and has children his time with the family can be drastically reduced. If the team gets promotion to the Western League then every other week there will be at least a 200 mile plus round trip to the Bristol area. Do players want to do that. Having a strong committee. For years clubs have relied on committee members whose only reason for joining is for the benefit of the club. How often do we here of members dying off when still in post. Where are the replacements ? To often we see someone joining the committee while their son is playing for the team but if he is not selected then they are off to. Even becoming a committee member takes up an awful lot of time, helping out at the Tea Hut or behind the bar or taking money at the gate or tending to the pitch and help making repairs. So how can clubs attract new committee members ? There are these people around and with guidance from within can become part of the club. How to attract them. Why not on a match day make an effort to TALK to these people and ask their views and how to dispel their views that the club is a closed shop. A club is only as strong as its committee. Players wages: In today's world if players have to drive to matches or training it costs money. If the Peninsula League was in the Midlands then the players would be very highly paid compared to local football. We often here that clubs are paying anything from £100 to £200 a week. Utterly ridiculous. Some clubs don't even take that kind of money at the gate. So how do they pay it. Obviously a sugar daddy or very good patronage from local businesses. But how long can that last. Especially if success is not achieved. At the moment St Austell attract an average of 205 fans per game, Plymouth Parkway 195, Torpoint Athletic 120, Newquay 117, Bodmin Town 110 and Ivybridge Town 100. Looking at that and say an average of £3 per head then it is pretty obvious that paying someone even £25 a match is a huge loss for the majority of clubs. So what is the answer. The simple solution is to not pay these exorbitant wages. Don't forget there can only be one winner. The rest are also rans. Finance: I have discussed having a sugar daddy or good patronage from local businesses. But these are only short term and can fall aside if there is no success on the field. A football club is for the local community so should the local community become involved with the clubs. I am sure many do. There should be a natural passage for youngsters to progress through the ranks to first team football but if clubs go outside the club to often then that link is broken and at a huge cost. How many managers would survive if every club had the same amount of wages to pay. Many managers achieve success because they have a much bigger budget than the others. That has been proved year after year. But if they do not intend to take the next level up then really what is the point. Finance at a club is all important. It needs hard working people to attract finance, so what if these people become disillusioned if there is no success. Every club has the responsibility to play within their means. Is it not the right time to look at the overall situation and call a halt to exorbitant wages. Location: It is an unfortunate fact of life that Cornwall especially is miles away from anywhere. The cost alone for travelling is enormous so for clubs to take the next step is a no-no right from the start. Conclusion: If clubs have a strong committee and can stay within their means then good luck to them, they would deserve everything they get. Take St Austell for example. Averaging over 200 fans per match and obviously working with an excellent committee looks like an example of what you can do if everything falls into place. Don't forget it wasn't that long ago that the club was about to go out of existence so good luck to them they have done Cornwall proud. There is no simple solution, staying within your means is a must so should clubs stay local instead of buying in players. But most of all is the club structure. Clubs need new blood within them and every encouragement should be given to younger people who want to become involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 An excellent post ECPL, you have summed it up totally. Clubs should not pay what they cannot afford, as we all know where that will end them. But referring back to my original post, DOES YOUR LOCAL FOOTBALL CLUB LACK AMBITION, sadly I think the majority of clubs in the Cornwall area do! As a floating supporter, I want to see many clubs see what has been achieved at St Austell as an incentive to kick start a revival their fortunes. By going out into the community, using the press and speaking to supporters, they well find people who would jump at the chance to get involved with their local football club. New enthusiasm, new ideas and additional help, can that be a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUGWASH Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 What a pile of rubbish. Pugwash signing out. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 What goes up must come down....and will. Other clubs have done the same as St Austell, and will again. Its just their turn, along with others at this moment they are doing well....and best of luck to them. How far can they go ? how far do they want to go ? If they wish to go a long way up the ladder they will have to do a lot to their facility to have any realistic prospect of progressing. Do other clubs lack ambition, no, all clubs have ambition, its just whether you have the inclination and time to pursue it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Rundle Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think for most clubs, the primary ambition should be to simply have a sustainable club in 5 or 10 years time. Anything on top of that, as the saying goes, is gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Success is having loyal fans who will be there week in week out and stick by the team through thick and thin. It's been said on here before, when the SWPL started, St Austell were referred to as St Awful as they were in dire straights. A bit of money, a spruce up and suddenly they are in the FA Vase semi finals. Same with Truro, ten years ago, a struggling mid table SWL side. Bring on a ginger haired sugar daddy and they win the FA Vase and end up in the Conference South. It's good that these clubs show the desire to go up but when the success stops and rather than challenging for honours, the club becomes a mid table, average team playing in a higher standard league, will these supporters be there then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCooper Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I love it how people refer to St Austell having lots and lots of money, we have not got anyone bank rolling us, we are a success at the moment due to an extremely hard working committee and highly respected manager with a group of players that want to win every game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 SUPERCOOPER, where on this post subject has St Austell having lots and lots of money been mentioned? Lets be honest, you are paying big money and you are being bank rolled. But I say best of luck to you. Unlike the majority and I mean the majority of clubs, you have accumulated a strong, hard working committee and it is now paying dividends. On my vast visit to your ground recently, I counted nearly 100 advertising boards, that in itself is fantastic. I say, if clubs have Chairmen/committees who are struggling to manage the club, ask for help. Some people only need to be encouraged to get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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