Hoops14 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I see st Keverne v chacewater is off due to no ref. crap for both teams this early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Is this a prem game...? Surly if this is a prem game any officials currently doing div 1,2,3 etc should be moved up and have a knock on effect down the leagues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops14 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Yeah. Trelawney prem. clearly the Cornish fa doesn't work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Marks Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Fa vase . Perranwell v HOLMANS off at minute no ref even though we've offered to ref. pointers that rule has changed no privileges at top or bottom. Ps we have played one game next week a friendly then three cup games in a row . Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops14 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 That's even more shocking that an FA Vase tie has no ref and a game in div 5 will have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Hi Marksy, I was under the impression that games could not be called off until midday owing to the fact a referee may become available at the last minute. Also as it was Perranwell who would not play without an official referee I find that very shortsighted especially with the referee availability as it is at the moment as this could and probably will happen to them several times this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops14 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Fa Vase should take priority over the trelawney/duchy league. Poor form from the Cornish fa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Marks Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 We do have to wait till 12 and Paul murphy may yet save the day. As for Mel at Perranwell unbelievable very annoying not wanting to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Fa Vase should take priority over the trelawney/duchy league. Poor form from the Cornish fa Neither Perranwell or Holmans are in the FA Vase so not sure where that has come from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marazion2013 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 You're not the only one without a ref and opposition won't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marazion2013 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Asked by illogan 3rds to arrange game as neither of us had a fixture and now won't play it. Spent hours Trying to get ref and had one but he now has to work. Not happy about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops14 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Come from Marksy's comment above. Still a higher league game. So should have a ref appointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Could you imagine a Chelsea game being called off due to no ref....but argyle having one of a suitable standard to do the Chelsea game...?! Surly if there's x20 referees available today in junior football then the top x20 games should have officials and the rest go without? They'll get their chance one day when they gain promotion?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 pointers, I do not think it`s quite as simple as that, there are quite a few variables to that, i e, Referee`s experience, Travelling distance etc etc and you cannot expect the Referee appointing officer to reappoint officials at the last minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Surly with the amount of technology out there something can be designed to automatically insert referees into games using their personal details and experiance? Games cancelled and recognises this, moves them onto another etc etc...? Get onto Apple and see what they can knock up lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peggy78 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 If you give priority to the higher division clubs every time then the lower league clubs wont play many games at all this year. There has to be a balance. Otherwise trelawny premier would be complete whilst div 5 would barely have started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Unlucky....no real need for so many divisions as it is, you can only play the games you have officials for maybe this is a sign that the league needs to finally recognise there's too many teams in this set up and stop taking anymore in/stop clubs voting teams in!!! Next season this will be worse and you'll see more made up clubs like Falmouth ferrets, Redruth redbulls, and Camborne crocodiles!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Pointers, or the really obvious, a shortage of officials, officials no longer willing to put up with all the abuse so they finish refereeing, I can only speak as I find and already this season I have had three games were I have been subjected to considerable abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I agree with that Paul, but surly you must agree if there's a shortage of referees then there needs to be a 'culling' of teams so to speak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Marks Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Game on thanks to Paul murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Pointers , no we must (as the CCFA ) are doing is to recruit more officials, but some of the answer is with the clubs, managers, players and even supporters, they must stop all the abuse towards officials or the situation will get even worse, to take your point of culling teams the conclusion is no officials = no teams= end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peggy78 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Pointers, it seems on every thread you appear on all you do is criticise and want people to give up the game for some reason (whether it be lack of refs in this thread, stop posting adverts for new players or clubs folding as they don't have a "proper" name or afford the luxury of their own facilities). If you put half as much effort in to promoting the game and encouraging more people to get involved in local football (something that is an aim of the FA itself) and finding solutions to problems as you do in to moaning you would be a major force behind the growth of cornish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Peggy, my points are varied from the topics I see and choose to comment on, my feeling on this one is the fact that there is not enough referees, so this has to have an effect on the number of teams that should be aloud to join leagues. They'll always be football, always! But if the league continues to let new clubs enter the league you'll have more teams without referees as there is obviously more teams than referees, it's not hard to understand, you don't see employers keeping excessive employees on their books just because that's the way it has always been, they even things up to do with the workload....this needs to happen in Cornish football. You'll get more and more people coming on here moaning they have no game due to no referee again and again, realistically ALL referees are already allocated games but the excessive amount of teams means many will have to go without. I'd love to see how many referees are available on a 'normal' sat without the Vase etc, and then how many 'established' clubs there are in the Trelawny league, not your ones recently made up, established, criteria to follow...! I can tell you now you'll have a much better ratio of referees to games than you have now! And the already established clubs / teams would be thriving with numbers, as would the good old Sunday league! I have no doubt you won't like his answer, it's my opinion, it isn't right or wrong, you are very blinkered Peggy due to the fact you are a member of one of these clubs. I do wish you all the best and mean no offence with any of my replies, I love the banter and also the discussions!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peggy78 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I genuinely don't have a blinkered view, I do enjoy playing devils advocate. I think if you look at some of my previous postings on the forum my view is actually that I could not understand why the bottom 2 leagues were extended to 15 in yet another re-shuffle just to accommodate 2 teams that applied. With 1 team already withdrawing from the league, the players playing for those extra 2 teams would have been looking for a club, you are correct, it doesn't make sense.However, established or not established makes no odds, its whether clubs are able to fulfill fixtures for the season without drawing from players from another club/league. If I am from one of "these clubs" as you put it, Storm was established in 2002 so has been playing league football in Cornwall for 12 years. Seems long enough to call established to me but doesn't seem to fit your criteria. It IS grassroots football, so what are you asking for minimum standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_fc Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Pointers why should a div 5 team give up their ref so a trelawny prem side can play? Ur like a football communist. If a young inexperienced ref took that premier game instead of a div 5 game ud be on here saying why are they reffing high standard football and not the bottom leagues. Paul Murphy works hard to appoint a ref for every game and if he's let dont cos some 1 has to work what is he supposed to do? Say no u gotta give upa days pay cos pointers wont b happy. Come on man do u live in the real world. People have bills to pay etc n need to work to pay those bills. Why dont u take up the whistle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_fc Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I genuinely don't have a blinkered view, I do enjoy playing devils advocate. I think if you look at some of my previous postings on the forum my view is actually that I could not understand why the bottom 2 leagues were extended to 15 in yet another re-shuffle just to accommodate 2 teams that applied. With 1 team already withdrawing from the league, the players playing for those extra 2 teams would have been looking for a club, you are correct, it doesn't make sense.However, established or not established makes no odds, its whether clubs are able to fulfill fixtures for the season without drawing from players from another club/league. If I am from one of "these clubs" as you put it, Storm was established in 2002 so has been playing league football in Cornwall for 12 years. Seems long enough to call established to me but doesn't seem to fit your criteria. It IS grassroots football, so what are you asking for minimum standards. I would have thought better to have all leagues with 14 and div 5 16. Seeing as most div 5 teams will likely go out early rounds of cups or wont b in many due to being reserve sides also would balance leagues cos 1 week a team in 4 and 5 wont play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Why is it that some refs get more abuse than others or do they all get the same abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Cbfc the simple fact is that a higher league team has more if a right to a referee than a lower one, it's not rocket science to work that out? And as mentioned I did say so long as that referee is suitability qualified to do so, let's be honest there's isn't much of a standard difference for officiating from div 5-2/3 1 and prem is a tad different. I've never knocked what Paul does as I know he works his socks off, a thankless task, I'm just stating that if there isn't enough referees for all league games then the higher division sides should have priority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_fc Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Pointers its all junior level makes no difference if ur prem or div 5. How wud u feel if ur ref was taken on a fri nite or Saturday morning to do a higher standard team? Ud b pissed off so would ur team. Cup games r different u can understand that but all teams deserve a ref and not to have there's taken for a higher standard team. Every club pays the same to play so unless that changes then there shouldn't be any favouritism over refs and if a team doesn't have a ref. Find 1. Simple solution iv done it in the past. Get the ok from paul to use the ref and its game on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 also depends on how well run the club is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Matador Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 B Manning I do agree with you that clubs and players should give referees a lot more respect, and that with disregard for their position will lead to more referees pulling out. On the flip side, our last two duchy league games have been officiated by two refs (no names) who clearly did not want to be there and even said that. Saying "I can't be bothered to be here, I'm just here for my money". (Their words). They overlooked very high/late challenges constantly, never blowing a whistle and basically not following the game. In our last game one of my players got booked because an opposition player had a head injury, my player informed the ref of it, and then got booked and the ref followed by saying "I've had enough of this ! " The majority of clubs have respect for referees but when they clearly can't be bothered to be there, surely that's the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 B Manning I do agree with you that clubs and players should give referees a lot more respect, and that with disregard for their position will lead to more referees pulling out. On the flip side, our last two duchy league games have been officiated by two refs (no names) who clearly did not want to be there and even said that. Saying "I can't be bothered to be here, I'm just here for my money". (Their words). They overlooked very high/late challenges constantly, never blowing a whistle and basically not following the game. In our last game one of my players got booked because an opposition player had a head injury, my player informed the ref of it, and then got booked and the ref followed by saying "I've had enough of this ! " The majority of clubs have respect for referees but when they clearly can't be bothered to be there, surely that's the issue. Presumably each club in your league mark the referee - what did you give the ones you're talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_fc Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 B Manning I do agree with you that clubs and players should give referees a lot more respect, and that with disregard for their position will lead to more referees pulling out. On the flip side, our last two duchy league games have been officiated by two refs (no names) who clearly did not want to be there and even said that. Saying "I can't be bothered to be here, I'm just here for my money". (Their words). They overlooked very high/late challenges constantly, never blowing a whistle and basically not following the game. In our last game one of my players got booked because an opposition player had a head injury, my player informed the ref of it, and then got booked and the ref followed by saying "I've had enough of this ! " The majority of clubs have respect for referees but when they clearly can't be bothered to be there, surely that's the issue. Presumably each club in your league mark the referee - what did you give the ones you're talking about? Yes I know refs can have awful days but at the end of the day they are qualified refs and we as players are not. Just deal with it and play the game we play or take up a different sport. The refs don't deserve abuse even if they have a poor game. With out ref's we cant play..... which brings us back to the old not enough refs situation. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldy Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 As there seems to be a referee shortage, have the leagues considered playing some games on Sundays? I know a lot of players probably play on Sundays as well as Saturdays but I would guess a sufficient percentage of refs would be available on both days? Failing that it seems the situation has to be endured unless there is less football which means fewer teams and larger squads to accommodate all the players who naturally want to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbie Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 As there seems to be a referee shortage, have the leagues considered playing some games on Sundays? I know a lot of players probably play on Sundays as well as Saturdays but I would guess a sufficient percentage of refs would be available on both days? Failing that it seems the situation has to be endured unless there is less football which means fewer teams and larger squads to accommodate all the players who naturally want to play the game. With Sunday league games Veteran League games and youth league games all having appointed referees not sure the situation would be any different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Green Matador,the comments you quote are not what I would expect from a referee, I do hope that you mark referee`s with an honest opinion of their performance and where applicable with a low mark send in a report, too many clubs give a mark which means they do not have to send in any report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I do hope that you mark referee`s with an honest opinion of their performance and where applicable with a low mark send in a report, too many clubs give a mark which means they do not have to send in any report. Exactly! It would be interesting what marks were sent in on the report on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 B Manning I do agree with you that clubs and players should give referees a lot more respect, and that with disregard for their position will lead to more referees pulling out. On the flip side, our last two duchy league games have been officiated by two refs (no names) who clearly did not want to be there and even said that. Saying "I can't be bothered to be here, I'm just here for my money". (Their words). They overlooked very high/late challenges constantly, never blowing a whistle and basically not following the game. In our last game one of my players got booked because an opposition player had a head injury, my player informed the ref of it, and then got booked and the ref followed by saying "I've had enough of this ! " The majority of clubs have respect for referees but when they clearly can't be bothered to be there, surely that's the issue.Presumably each club in your league mark the referee - what did you give the ones you're talking about? Yes I know refs can have awful days but at the end of the day they are qualified refs and we as players are not. Just deal with it and play the game we play or take up a different sport. The refs don't deserve abuse even if they have a poor game. With out ref's we cant play..... which brings us back to the old not enough refs situation. Why is that? Because there is too many teams!!!!!! Finally!! You don't see many decent new referees nowadays either is this due to the abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Just keep gobbing off about referees and you will reap what you sow....limited football because of lack of referees. Couple that with folding teams and local football WILL change as we know it. You will only have yourselves to blame. An awful lot of gobby, self opinionated, over-rated players around......who are always right and just can't let it go. Shouted at one last week having a hissy, girlie fit over a throw on the half way line...pathetic. Linesman come in for the same uncontrolled smart mouth vitriol, last one who spoke to me out of turn when I ran the line had a smack in his smart gob. Was about 30 odd years ago mind. Worked though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledleystheking Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Having played and coached football in Cornwall and out of the county for around 25 years,i decided this year to give reffing a go.Not to bad so far.Mostly amusing the appeals from centre halves and keepers with telescopic eyesight plus other ridiculous shouts. Haven't had much abuse so far but it is early days.One thing i would say in the defence of the majority of players is that the abuse does tend to come from 1 or 2 players and they don't help themselves or there teams by behaving like nob heads. As a coach i always made a point of telling the players to get the ref onside whether he was having a good game or not,and now as a ref as soon as someone starts arguing or generally being a nuisance there card is marked.If more managers led by example and gave the ref respect then the players would surely follow.It worked from me.i Finally i think we need more ex players as refs not just people that couldnt play the game.massive difference in the ability to communicate with players and a better understanding of the game. All only my opinion of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 ledleystheking, sorry I have to disagree about more ex players (of course we need all we can get) but in my experience there is no rule that makes an ex player a good referee and a person with limited experience as a player a bad referee, I have seen both, ex good player took up the whistle and was an awful referee a youngster with obviously limited playing experience was a brilliant referee. The only way you find out is when they take up the whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointers Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I have to agree with Ledley on this one, some of the best local referees are ex players, the players realise this and do give more respect to their decisions as they have the knowledge and experience to make hear decisions from their playing background. Many referees who haven't played the game before make school boy mistakes which infuriate the players, not understanding what is a genuine shoulder to shoulder, 50/50s etc etc, some of the best referees in Cornwall are ex players of a decent standard, actually it would be interesting to know what the top 5-10 referees are which will undoubtably prove my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Sorry to disagree on this one, but i could name a young referee who is brilliant and because of his age he just cannot have had much playing experience and on the other hand the opposite. Unfortunately there is no hard and fast rule which say`s who will make a good referee, an example are the top flight referee`s to make the grade they need to be refereeing from an early age so they concentrate on refereeing not playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_fc Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I have to agree with Ledley on this one, some of the best local referees are ex players, the players realise this and do give more respect to their decisions as they have the knowledge and experience to make hear decisions from their playing background. Many referees who haven't played the game before make school boy mistakes which infuriate the players, not understanding what is a genuine shoulder to shoulder, 50/50s etc etc, some of the best referees in Cornwall are ex players of a decent standard, actually it would be interesting to know what the top 5-10 referees are which will undoubtably prove my point. This is utter crap. I'm sorry but are you saying a player who retires from the game after say 30 will be a better ref than a 16 yr old. Bearing in mind they done the same course and will know the same rules. Some times ex player refs also make the mistake of missing the tricks of youngsters resulting in pens etc. We had a couple young refs last season, pre season and this season who have all been really good. As for respecting refs..... are you on crack. All refs should be shown the same degree of respect despite age, experience (as a player or not) and history. Young refs are the future and people slatting them on here will only make them wanna put the whistle in the bin and boots back on. I dont know you pointers but id guess your an older guy. Give the youngsters a chance. As for top 10 refs I could name 10 and you could and I bet we would have the names of 20 different refs. How do we rate them? What level they are at, how much experience they have or simply by word of mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Refs, like teachers, like policeman, like your boss also need to earn respect. I'll give an example, how can a ref give a goal that he thinks has crossed the line from his position in the edge of the penalty area? How can you respect that? I agree with whoever said it though. The majority if the best refs out there are the 40/50 year olds who have played a bit. See the stick Price got last week, he's never played and had little interest in football as a youngster (I'm told). 22 players plus officials plus media can't be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 they are wrong to give the bloke a public hanging like they have. if one of your team has a bad game would you go public like has happened to Adam Price. Good ref or bad he deserves better than public vilification. How does anyone think that public condemnation will make him a better ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 He puts himself out there though. Granted it may have gone over the top but he's paid to do a job. It's not a voluntary role. I wasn't at the game so can't comment on that one but I've had him ref before and he's not great. There are some ex players who also aren't great may I also add!!! A good ref is one who isn't talked about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Darren, You should not have to earn respect, a policeman does not have to earn my respect or for that matter a teacher and many others, I suggest you read the info on the respect campaign, As to a referee awarding a goal from his position on the edge of the area, well that`s what he is there to do, if in his opinion the ball crossed the goal line then that`s what it did. he cannot shirk making difficult decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 my point is if the opinion is that he needs help then surely people should not take the easy option and go public but let the county know through his marks with a report on why it was low. And at least he has the balls to cross the line and try to do his best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Absolute bollocks manning. I knew you'd find a way of defending. How can you give a decision that you can't see or be in a position to know the outcome. As for respect. You earn it in all walks of life and is not rightfully given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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