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jayjay21

Immoral behaviour

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On 18/05/2017 at 20:50, jayjay21 said:

I'm totally shocked and disgusted a well established club could completely get rid of a whole team and management and bring in a rivals under 18s side and management . There certainly ain't no loyalty anymore . Some committee members should bow there head in shame disgusting behaviour 

Great speech ūüėāūüėā

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2 minutes ago, jayjay21 said:

Thank you ūüėāūüėāūüėāūüėā

Wasn't putting fault with you at all mate. I was just a bit surprised after the way you felt you had been treated you would move to a club that has just treated another squad the same. Out of the frying pan and into the fire maybe. 

Especially with the strong 'local players' liskeard seconds have always had and the direction the club has been going with the use of local lads across all three teams, I was surprised they have moved away from this. I hope they don't go back on this after this season and you as a squad end up looking for another team¬†again ūü§£ūü§£

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12 minutes ago, rob brown said:

Wasn't putting fault with you at all mate. I was just a bit surprised after the way you felt you had been treated you would move to a club that has just treated another squad the same. Out of the frying pan and into the fire maybe. 

Especially with the strong 'local players' liskeard seconds have always had and the direction the club has been going with the use of local lads across all three teams, I was surprised they have moved away from this. I hope they don't go back on this after this season and you as a squad end up looking for another team¬†again ūü§£ūü§£

Funnily enough Rob, the committee meeting we had Monday night it was stated that Liskeard must be a local team for local players!! Lasted 2 days I suppose!

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Sadly there is only one loser in this saga-St.Dom.- a  good Club run by one of the most respected people in the ECPL,-Ken Harvey.Could you really blame Ken

in view of this and the problem with last season's manager, if he felt like chucking it all in ? The question must be asked if St.Dom can possibly continue.

As for Liskeard :----"CAVEAT EMPTOR"!

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15 minutes ago, JonColenzo said:

Funnily enough Rob, the committee meeting we had Monday night it was stated that Liskeard must be a local team for local players!! Lasted 2 days I suppose!

It was what I helped MQ strive to get for years there mate and was the whole point of getting a third team for the 18's to go into and for the kids side to have something to aim for a progress into. Seems a shame for the club to loose that base. 

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10 minutes ago, Adlestrop said:

Sadly there is only one loser in this saga-St.Dom.- a  good Club run by one of the most respected people in the ECPL,-Ken Harvey.Could you really blame Ken

in view of this and the problem with last season's manager, if he felt like chucking it all in ? The question must be asked if St.Dom can possibly continue.

As for Liskeard :----"CAVEAT EMPTOR"!

And me! Only ECPL manager to have never managed a game before being removed!

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7 hours ago, JonColenzo said:

And me! Only ECPL manager to have never managed a game before being removed!

True words mate, I doubt you will be the last one if the lack of loyalty, vision and respect continues within football.

Following our conversation I just sat and wondered why this has happened and I cant see any real reason for any club to treat players and managers like this so I do hope that this does not push you away from football.  

MQx 

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Why aren't these so called local lads turning up to pre season then and putting a case forward that they are better. 

If one/two or three of these local lads turns out to be an amateur Messi or Ronaldo then why would the new management not sign these lads up instead. 

Local lads staying together and not pushing themselves to play at a higher standard has always surprised me. I doubt Saltash 1st, Callington 1st or Tavi 1st for example is mad up of a group of 10/11 friends. So if these local lads want to play at a better standard they should aim high and put forward there case.   

If I was these local lads then I would be turning up along with the 15 players already coming over from Tavi and letting my football do the talking.

Then the new management have a decision. My understanding its football not a friendship club.  

 

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4 minutes ago, footymad said:

Why aren't these so called local lads turning up to pre season then and putting a case forward that they are better. 

If one/two or three of these local lads turns out to be an amateur Messi or Ronaldo then why would the new management not sign these lads up instead. 

Local lads staying together and not pushing themselves to play at a higher standard has always surprised me. I doubt Saltash 1st, Callington 1st or Tavi 1st for example is mad up of a group of 10/11 friends. So if these local lads want to play at a better standard they should aim high and put forward there case.   

If I was these local lads then I would be turning up along with the 15 players already coming over from Tavi and letting my football do the talking.

Then the new management have a decision. My understanding its football not a friendship club.  

 

They were going to turn up with the new manager to pre-season training and speaking from experience, we were not expecting any amateur Messi or Ronaldos but we were expecting a bunch of local, loyal people to get together and play football every week!

What is wrong with it being a friendship club that works hard and plays hard on and off the pitch?

MQx

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58 minutes ago, footymad said:

Why aren't these so called local lads turning up to pre season then and putting a case forward that they are better. 

If one/two or three of these local lads turns out to be an amateur Messi or Ronaldo then why would the new management not sign these lads up instead. 

Local lads staying together and not pushing themselves to play at a higher standard has always surprised me. I doubt Saltash 1st, Callington 1st or Tavi 1st for example is mad up of a group of 10/11 friends. So if these local lads want to play at a better standard they should aim high and put forward there case.   

If I was these local lads then I would be turning up along with the 15 players already coming over from Tavi and letting my football do the talking.

Then the new management have a decision. My understanding its football not a friendship club.  

 

They may well do-and I see and agree to a certain extent. On this occasion, from what I am led to believe-it was agreed only Monday at the AGM that both the 2nds and 3rds would be made up of local lads working hard both on and off the pitch for the club, which was the direction of the club when I was involved 4or 5 years ago and from friends still involved was led to believe it still was.  they then appaoited a manager for this exact reason. Then a few days later go back on this in a complete U-turn. It's not the Caliber of the players that I have the issue with, it's the morals and loyalty from the club.....which is what this topic was originally based upon. 

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Never said there is anything wrong with it. 

Why don't some of them turn up and push themselves to see if they could force themselves into the team. 

Maybe I differ from most where I play football to win and still have a good time. (Losing is never fun). When you join a new team you make friends with everyone anyway at this level. 

I would suggest given the history of some of these lads from Tavi there is no doubt in my mind they would also be a loyal bunch, who would turn up every week and play football. (Just maybe the local bit is a bit harder to achieve).   

I am sure the new players would have worked hard on and off the pitch, I would be surprised if they didn't, but surely Liskeard as a club have ambitions to achieve greater things, so whether this be local lads or players from outside of the area I am sure there aim is to build a strong second team which in turn will only be a benefit for the firsts. I am sure there aim is to return the first team to the SWPL.  

As a club Liskeard will be signing some quality players, if I was these young local lads I would be turning up and testing myself. If I am not successful this season, then try again next season and so on. 

I am a big believer in local lads being part of a team, but if they aren't good enough then you can't have a team full of local lads that just get stuffed every week, they will struggle to be so loyal. I would be suggesting to some of these lads, push yourselves. Get yourself noticed and maybe just maybe make your way into the Liskeard First team. 

I see your point Rob, but as I am sure you have mentioned previously Football has no loyalty. 

I played for a team for years, gave them everything, raised money and so on, then when my face didn't fit under the new management I was gone. Harsh but its football, I then left joined a new team, got promoted, then won the league, then runner up and cup winner. Actually it turned out to be for the best. I enjoyed my football more. (This is how these local lads should look at it, either fight to get into Liskeard AFC or win lots of trophies and just smile). 

Its a shame for the local lads, but like I said, turn up and prove your good enough. The new management I am sure are not silly enough to turn away good players. 

If 5 of them can prove there worth a chance you have 5 local lads, then next year 2 more turn up you then have 7 and so on, it grows and the club grows and local football grows. 

I can't comment on what the board has said to these people, I am only putting forward a football case on a Football Forum. I am sorry my comments don't match the header title.  

 

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7 minutes ago, footymad said:

Never said there is anything wrong with it. 

Why don't some of them turn up and push themselves to see if they could force themselves into the team. 

Maybe I differ from most where I play football to win and still have a good time. (Losing is never fun). When you join a new team you make friends with everyone anyway at this level. 

I would suggest given the history of some of these lads from Tavi there is no doubt in my mind they would also be a loyal bunch, who would turn up every week and play football. (Just maybe the local bit is a bit harder to achieve).   

I am sure the new players would have worked hard on and off the pitch, I would be surprised if they didn't, but surely Liskeard as a club have ambitions to achieve greater things, so whether this be local lads or players from outside of the area I am sure there aim is to build a strong second team which in turn will only be a benefit for the firsts. I am sure there aim is to return the first team to the SWPL.  

As a club Liskeard will be signing some quality players, if I was these young local lads I would be turning up and testing myself. If I am not successful this season, then try again next season and so on. 

I am a big believer in local lads being part of a team, but if they aren't good enough then you can't have a team full of local lads that just get stuffed every week, they will struggle to be so loyal. I would be suggesting to some of these lads, push yourselves. Get yourself noticed and maybe just maybe make your way into the Liskeard First team. 

Agree completely mate-but as you can from what I put above-up until mondays AGM that was not the clubs main objective. If they were looking for a side and a manager to keep the local lads playing with a clear development for the junior sides to come through. 

I get exactly what your saying and agree-when I was dropped from the first team at liskeard and decided to leave it was to then challenge myself in a better side and try and win things which I didn't think would happen with liskeard which is why I play for torpoint. Don't live there but get involved as much as I can with the club and have given three, leading onto 4 more years commitment to them. 

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Yeah maybe Liskeard had to make a decision, the last two seasons in the ECPL they have been poor. (No disrespect to former players or managers). However they have struggled and maybe they have seen this as a chance to put the club back up the table, building a stronger second team will help the club. If the first team can also push and get promoted to the SWPL then its looking great for Liskeard. 

Its a tough one because I am sure the other lads would have done well but the step up from Duchy to ECPL is a large gap. Maybe too big. 

Would these local lads been able to cope with getting beat by Saltash, Torpoint, Parkway and others. 

We will never know and from Liskeard point of view, I am sure there aim is still to integrate local players but maybe there approach is now a slower one, progressing local talent over time rather then in one hit. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Brianmooreshead said:

The way people are talking on here about Tavistock reserves you'd think that they were world beaters. Didn't exactly pull up any trees last season did they ?

That's actually worth looking at -  final league placing : 10th out of 15. 

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3 minutes ago, footymad said:

Yeah maybe Liskeard had to make a decision, the last two seasons in the ECPL they have been poor. (No disrespect to former players or managers). However they have struggled and maybe they have seen this as a chance to put the club back up the table, building a stronger second team will help the club. If the first team can also push and get promoted to the SWPL then its looking great for Liskeard. 

Its a tough one because I am sure the other lads would have done well but the step up from Duchy to ECPL is a large gap. Maybe too big. 

Would these local lads been able to cope with getting beat by Saltash, Torpoint, Parkway and others. 

We will never know and from Liskeard point of view, I am sure there aim is still to integrate local players but maybe there approach is now a slower one, progressing local talent over time rather then in one hit. 

 

Agree mate. No disrespect to any of the liskeard sides or the potential side this year but on paper-the ex tavi lads should give the club better footballing options. And if that is the route they want to go as a club then it's correct move. Just think the way they have gone about it is very wrong. If that is what they wanted to do then they appointed the wrong manager at the end of last season. They had he option to appoint the Ewing brothers instead of Jon-but went with Jon to keep the local ethos through the club. 

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No one has said they are world beaters, but the quality of some of the players I am sure is better than what was coming over. (That's my opinion, I don't know these local lads so unfair me to comment on them). However that's why I suggest these local lads turn up to pre season, if they are good enough they will get signed on. Simple in my eyes. 

Tavy 2nds had a tough start to last season, lost a few players and ended up having to do a bit of rebuilding while the season was going on, which isn't always helpful. If they stayed at Tavy this season, I have no doubt they would be top 5. So that's the benefit to Liskeard this season, they now have the potential of a top 5 team. 

I can't comment on the way the club have gone about it as I don't know enough. 

All I hope is some of these local lads that want to push themselves turn up to pre season and show the new management that they are good enough.  

 

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19 hours ago, jayjay21 said:

You can aim it at me but  to be honest I'm just a coach and part time player I wasn't at the meetings I was just clearing up what happened . I won't get in to arguments or anything else as I usually get in trouble on here . Yes we was badly treated at tavi and I made that clear but as I have always said we was approached 

JayJay21, I don't see the difference between what You as a squad have done differently to what was done to you boys!! Unfair yes but parkway under18's were presumably approached and obviously accepted  leaving you boys without a club, then you were approached leaving those Liskeard boys without a club!! Both immoral or dog eat dog!! Either way the same!! 

Ken Harvey should contact those Liskeard boys left without a club and hopefully keep St Dom in the league good bloke, MQ could you make that happen??

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Early Doors said:

JayJay21, I don't see the difference between what You as a squad have done differently to what was done to you boys!! Unfair yes but parkway under18's were presumably approached and obviously accepted  leaving you boys without a club, then you were approached leaving those Liskeard boys without a club!! Both immoral or dog eat dog!! Either way the same!! 

Ken Harvey should contact those Liskeard boys left without a club and hopefully keep St Dom in the league good bloke, MQ could you make that happen??

 

 

 

Anything is possible I guess, Ken deserves some good luck as well but I`m afraid my football days are near the end now, this has  made me re-think a few things so I might just enjoy my vets footy from now on and see what happens!!

Off for some "Coddy shack" fish and chips, then hopefully off to the Albion to drown a few sorrows! 

Cheers and gone

MQx

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To be honest it is slightly different as we never said they couldn't stay they all welcome to pre season to fight for places like anyone else if they good enough then they will be selected 

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A fascinating post. To clear up a few matters, at least from the perspective of Tavistock AFC's Committee and the decision-making process that has taken place over recent weeks:

1 - I asked our outgoing Reserve Team Manager, Tim May, if he would be open to integrating approximately eight Parkway Under 18 players and their current coaches into the Club. Alas, for reasons I respect, Tim slept on it but declined the offer and opted to leave the Club.

2 - Nobody involved at Tavistock AFC asked Tim or ANY of his players to leave the Club. Anyone who states otherwise, I assume, is badly misinformed.

3 - In fact, prior to accepting the role at Liskeard, Tim encouraged our (now former) Reserve Team players to fight for their place at Tavi during pre-season. Just because he was leaving didn't mean they had to fall on their swords.

4 - Disappointingly, the feedback given to Tim by a number of (now ex-) players is that they didn't want to "fight for their places against a bunch of 18 year olds."

5 - Until the decision by Tim, and his players from last season, to leave Tavistock AFC for Liskeard, efforts have been made both by myself, members of the Committee and the incoming management team to reach out to existing players to ask that they attend pre-season and give the new management team (and new players) a chance to be integrated into our Club. Evidently, their loyalties lie with Tim (which I respect) and we wish them all the best in the ECPL next season.

6 - We are very fortunate in Tavistock to have a large and well-run Community Club. At the top-end of this setup, we have an Under 18s side and a Community Men's team playing in the P&D - our agenda remains the development of Under 18 players through the P&D ('Thirds') side, into the ECPL (Reserves) team and, if the appetite and ability is there, into our Firsts.

7 - Certainly we have a very competent First Team and breaking into it has proven to be out of reach for members of our ECPL side over the past couple of seasons as we have pushed to develop a squad that can make Langsford Park a must-visit for both our supporters and groundhoppers far and wide. This emerging chasm is neither the fault of our current Firsts or outgoing Reserve Team management who have both worked hard for our Club. It is more a measure of how far (and quickly) our Firsts have developed and not having had, at least during the last couple of seasons, available Reserve team players who have been BOTH ABLE AND WILLING to step up.

8 - Also, we have seen players from the Community Men's P&D sides (our de facto 'thirds') step up into ECPL and we are well aware that our current Under 18 side look to be full of potential and some stepped up into the P&D side last season. However, it is the ambition of the players and management of our Under 18s to complete their time in the DJM League this coming season (having just been promoted to the top flight). Fortunately, our new Reserve Team management is building a constructive relationship with the Firsts, 'Thirds' and the Under 18s, so I am sure that we will see greater player mobility as the season unfolds. Already, we have agreement that if the ECPL side needs to call on the Under 18s, or vice versa, there is willingness for that to happen, where appropriate. Our managers are ALL aligned to improve player development within the Club and will meet regularly to support this, whether than be through joined-up training, attending (scouting at) matches or in a more formal meeting environment to identify emerging talent.

9 - Speaking of our new Reserve Team Management, the way that they have been characterised on this forum is wholly unreasonable. Due to the great success of the 'Bar Sol' Parkway Reserve team last season, they had understandable frustrations that their (former) Parkway Under 18s, who had an appetite to step up into the Parkway Firsts, were being 'blocked'. Certainly, Parkway Firsts have made some phenomenal signings recently - a force to be reckoned with this coming season as they push for Western League - which would have made that transition even more challenging. Anyway, whilst Parkway's (former) Under 18s are eligible to remain in the DJM for another season, the lads who are now joining us sought a greater challenge and feel ready for Men's Football and Parkway's loss is our gain. So to be clear, anyone who thinks we took the Under 18s because Glyn moved to to join his brother Lee at Parkway is looking for angst where none exists. We totally respect Glyn's decision (and the fantastic service he has given to us) and admire Parkway's ambition to move on to Western League.  Certainly, we are not in the business of 'playing games' with other clubs. We are only interested in developing Tavistock Football Club.

10 - And, as our Under 18s plan to complete their playing time in the DJM, it was in fact OUR CURRENT Under 18's manager who knew that the Parkway Under 18s were looking for adult football and who recommended that we would be well-served to approach them with a view to bring across the new management and players and integrate them with existing / former ECPL side. Sadly, our (former) ECPL manager and players declined the opportunity to be part of this, but we are fully invested in this programme and will do our best to make our new recruits feel welcome.

11 - Then once our 'home-grown' Under 18s complete their DJM journey 12 months from now, our ambition is to develop them into P&D, ECPL or even SWPL players, dependent on ability (and, in part, their own ambitions). So to suggest that the Club has snubbed our home-grown Under 18's is, frankly, laughable! Having seen the great success Callington have had with developing a youth side into ECPL runner's-up I am excited for what these young lads might be able to achieve as they mature within the Tavistock football family.

12 - In the meantime, following the mass exodus of Reserve team players to Liskeard, our new Reserve Team Management are actively encouraging members of our 'Thirds' (and anyone who wants to throw their hat into the ring) to try out for our Reserves this pre-season. Personally, I would love to see more Tavi lads, and those from surrounding villages, take up the opportunity to join a local, progressive and dedicated footballing setup at an exciting time for our Club. Rest assured, the motivation of our new managers is to prepare players to compete for places in our First Team, so don't be put off by having to prove yourselves and get yourself along to pre-season! That invitation also goes for any of our outgoing lads who might be wobbling about their move to Liskeard. No doors have been shut, despite some of the rumours going around and agendas being pushed by those with an axe to grind (which, to be very, very clear, is not among our outgoing management - Tim and Sammo have been extremely reasonable and I genuinely wish them all the best).

14 - Finally, with the amount of money flowing around the top sides of the SWPL Premier we understand the temptations for our top Club players to move on. That so many have remained loyal to our Firsts, despite big money offers from elsewhere, is credit to the Managers and those who work tirelessly for our Club to make it an inviting place to play. Our Firsts are brimming with young, hungry players who have taken the same journey as the lads we are now welcoming into our fold - and just as we work to develop player mobility through the ranks, we must accept that our players will progress, we hope through higher steps in the football pyramid. With that in mind, we are developing a Reserves side with a playing a philosophy that can prepare footballers to step up and fill those voids when they open up and when the lads are ready... and we hope this will attract ambitious young footballers from the locality to get involved.

Sorry for the long note, but I felt it was about time that the Club straightened out a few things. Far too much crap flying about and whilst I don't normally take the bait, I will fight for our lovely Club and set the record straight when others seek to discredit the work we do.

So good luck to our outgoing Lambs in their new surroundings. And thank you for your service and we hope to see you next season in the ECPL. Certainly no hard feelings from all at Tavistock AFC.

And to the lads who are moving on from Liskeard, good luck to you too in finding a new home if you decide not to stay. I can vouch for the character of your new management and you have some cracking lads heading your way, so perhaps give them a chance to integrate.

Close season is silly season but we all get to do it again in a couple of months so enjoy a couple of weeks off!

Chris Fenner, Chairman, Tavistock AFC

 

 

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Just now, jefferson hog said:

Wow nothing on tonight Chris ūüėā

hahahaha jefferson hog! fair point!!!  needless to say our meetings can go on a bit! ;)

 

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Makes great reading BUT and I mean BUT. Tim May was put in an untenable situation by being asked to bring in 8 players along with coaches and then expect him to agree.  Sorry but reading your posting reveals one thing.  You must have known that any manager worth his salt would not accept what in effect was an ultimatum.   The club had obviously made up its mind to accept Plymouth Parkway under 18's yet the clubs own under 18's had a better record.  So bringing in players from Plymouth over local players did not cross your mind that this could cause a problem.   Despite your under 18 manager supposedly requesting that his players were to be passed over by players and management from another team who finished below your home grown team.     

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I've retracted my previous post, it won't make any difference what I say and perhaps I was a tad ott with my reply plus I don't really want to get into a slagging match over any of it.

I stand by what I said regarding Chris's post. Knowing the situation first hand, I know that he has perhaps made a mistake with some of the information.

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Just been informed that st Dominic know nothing about all this and waiting for their meeting next week to confirm team which they believed was tavi. Treat those how you wish to be treated 

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Originally I liked the idea of keeping liskeard local but from my point of view it hasn't worked. Gotta say it's probably the best thing liskeard could do, there isn't enough good local players to maintain a strong swpl team and an ecpl team. No body wants to be fighting relegation every year and not many people want to go and watch that either. 

The way they have gone about it maybe not the best but in terms of looking at bettering themselves and looking for success as a club then something needed to change. There was a select few of players that I felt were good enough, so hopefully they will stay and earn there spot in the team and have more success and not fighting relegation every year. 

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