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Foul Language discussions have occupied a lot of space on this forum over the season, which makes last weeks Cornish Guardian headline quite interesting.
It read:- Ban on swearing and in the report of the court case that followed, it stated that the offender was given a five year court order, banning him from swearing in a public place.
The person concerned also has a drink problem, and a ban was also issued regarding  drinking in a public place.
No doubt his inebriated condition contributed to his foul mouthed tirades, but there is an interesting section of the ban that is the law of this land, and is en'forceable if the use of foul language or threats or causing nuisance or obstruction, that would cause any person to feel offence, harassment, alarm or distress, directly or indirectly.
It follows therefore that if a supporter or club official feels offended by any of the above, he/she need not rely on the referee to deal with it, they can deal with it themselves, IF  they feel sufficiently agrieved.
Food for thought in some cases that have surfaced on this forum i think.

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I think this is a good piece of legislation, so long as it were to be enforced. The problem that exists is, as many have voiced on this forum, not enough people think the use of bad or foul language warrants taking legal or punitive action. As has been said too often, the use of bad language is so common these days that many folk have become immune to it, almost to the point of not even hearing it. 

Quite how you would go about taking action yourself at a football match, if the referee declined to deal with it, I don't know. You would need proof to show to a Court and that would have to consist of witnesses statements from those who were prepared to support you, and ideally some sound recordings of the bad or foul language to play to the Court. Not easy without the backing of a referee. If he/she were to take on field action eg, by red carding the player or players concerned, that would of course be sufficient along with your evidence, to convince a Magistrate that you had a case.

Good legislation though, but it needs a trial case to test the wind as it were. Then of course you would need a sympathetic Magistrate or Justice of the Peace to deal with the case satisfactorily.

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By its very nature life is complicated, but unless there is a determined effort by officialdom, (the Guardian report suggests that that may be the case in some areas ) the few will continue to offend the majority.     The majority of fans at football matches are boisterous perhaps, but well behaved overall.
I wonder what impact on attendances the absence of foul and abusive language would have, I'm sure we have all experienced it, and many people refuse to take their children and grandchildren to matches because of it.
These youngsters are the future of the game, and this is what is at stake.

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1 hour ago, We Two said:

By its very nature life is complicated, but unless there is a determined effort by officialdom, (the Guardian report suggests that that may be the case in some areas ) the few will continue to offend the majority.     The majority of fans at football matches are boisterous perhaps, but well behaved overall.
I wonder what impact on attendances the absence of foul and abusive language would have, I'm sure we have all experienced it, and many people refuse to take their children and grandchildren to matches because of it.
These youngsters are the future of the game, and this is what is at stake.

Without a doubt the absence of foul and abusive language would make a difference to the gates. I know of a number of families who would return to their local football ground if this were so. As it stands, the average (but not all) football ground, is sadly not a place for a family afternoon out. I hope it all changes for the better - but it won't unless enough people take up this cause. 

I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that there will be little support on this forum, if earlier posts and threads are anything to go by. There seems to be an apathy towards the subject.

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This legislation cannot and would never be considered at football grounds at this level, by enforcement agencies / prosecution agencies or the Courts - Public Space Protection (Banning) Orders and the criminal equivalent of the Public Order Act are used as a public protection issue not sporting behaviour, unless specifically deemed in the 'public' interest.

Every club at this level is Charter Standard and must have a 'Code of Conduct' displayed for spectators attending the ground (which includes NO Abusive Language) - any abusive behaviour by spectators should result in a home club committee member or representative having the abusive fan removed - simple. 

This time last year, the forum was full of the Respect initiative and meetings to be held with FA / clubs / players and refs - this happened in recreational leagues but not to my knowledge in any Step league? Referees and Assistant Referees have plenty of power to stop abuse by players / officials, whether to officials / at each other or at spectators - all of which we have all witnessed on a weekly basis - do they - virtually never. Do clubs take action against their players for abusive language - never.

Until Referees deal with this, it will never change - nobody want to see players cautioned or sent off for foul / abusive / threatening behaviour or managers banned from the touch line BUT until it does happen some players and teams will continue to do it. Furthermore spectators will not bring young children or grounds to watch the sport they love as they are more likely to pick up new expletives than skills.

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Just hand out ear plugs to the spectators bad language is part of the game im sure people would miss the docile tones of Mr Gilbert in the Bodmin dugout out hes just a example but what a good manager

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3 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

Just hand out ear plugs to the spectators bad language is part of the game im sure people would miss the docile tones of Mr Gilbert in the Bodmin dugout out hes just a example but what a good manager

This is the " if you don't like it  don't listen'' attitude that allows the problem to continue. With regard to the legislation not being en'forceable at sports arenas, how then has the person in the Guardian report  been banned from swearing in any public place in Cornwall, surely sports arenas are public places.
A committee member may attempt to eject an offender, but if he/she refuses to go, the police can be asked to attend and remove the person, you are not above the law at a football ground.
Whether the ban WILL be enforced is another matter, but lets not lose sight of the legislation that exists to curb foul language if it offends.

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Very difficult for local referees at times as the problem is never dealt with from the top down. A couple of weeks ago Sam Allardyce (the former leader of our England team) was literally spitting vitriolic abuse at the referee while fourth official Mike Jones stood pathetically beside him doing absolutely nothing. 

Until we deal with the issues at top level we can never really expect our referees to have much of a chance to stop it locally. 

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I have said this before when the foul and abusive rule was brought in back during the 80'summer there was a player sent off in our first game but wheneal everyone watched match of the day later on the players were effing and jeffing all through the the programme and no one was sanctioned. There lies the problem 

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6 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

Just hand out ear plugs to the spectators bad language is part of the game im sure people would miss the docile tones of Mr Gilbert in the Bodmin dugout out hes just a example but what a good manager

That's the type of attitude that means I will no longer take my two young lads to football. Last time I went with them season before last a well known manager was spouting the usual amount of feffing and jeffing, I politely asked him to mind his language, he told me to f**k of over the other side as this was his area and if I didn't like it f**k off. His side were winning 3-0, and he was appealing for a throw in!

you may think I'm being too sensitive, blah blah blah, but have not taken my children since. Families not going now means less and less supporters (and therefore less income for clubs) in the future. 

Whether a crackdown on foul and abusive language is enforceable or not, who knows, but feel it's needed to bring families/supporters of the future back to clubs

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I agree with most of your post Tommy with one exception, and that is that we can set an example to others by not cherry picking the rules that the referee has at his disposal.
I attended a local football match, when the referee warned the players that foul language would not be tolerated.   One individual thought it didn't apply to him, continued his vitriol and was promptly dispatched to the dressing room.
Nobody else decided to test the refs resolve to keep his word and after that the game became all the more enjoyable.
 

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5 hours ago, We Two said:

This is the " if you don't like it  don't listen'' attitude that allows the problem to continue. With regard to the legislation not being en'forceable at sports arenas, how then has the person in the Guardian report  been banned from swearing in any public place in Cornwall, surely sports arenas are public places.
A committee member may attempt to eject an offender, but if he/she refuses to go, the police can be asked to attend and remove the person, you are not above the law at a football ground.
Whether the ban WILL be enforced is another matter, but lets not lose sight of the legislation that exists to curb foul language if it offends.

The guy in question is a complete and utter *****. He should be shot 

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11 hours ago, We Two said:

I agree with most of your post Tommy with one exception, and that is that we can set an example to others by not cherry picking the rules that the referee has at his disposal.
I attended a local football match, when the referee warned the players that foul language would not be tolerated.   One individual thought it didn't apply to him, continued his vitriol and was promptly dispatched to the dressing room.
Nobody else decided to test the refs resolve to keep his word and after that the game became all the more enjoyable.
 

I was watching a game at Okehampton about three seasons ago, and the referee had warned all the players about the use of foul language before the game kicked off. Just before half time he warned two players again, but they didn't stop.The ref red carded both players, and, unfortunately for the opposition, they were both their players. The ref refereed the match very well and was well supported by his linesmen.

I wish more refs would grasp this particular nettle. It's not easy, and I guess there has to be some leeway. When a player swears at himself in exasperation at a duff pass he's made, that's one thing. But constant use of bad language, often yelled out loudly for all to hear, must be stamped out. 

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Swearing is a problem of society as a whole not just on the soccer pitch. People who swear all week every week are not going to stop just because  they are running around a field, it's in their DNA, it will never be controlled regardless of who does what.

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4 hours ago, hoppit said:

Swearing is a problem of society as a whole not just on the soccer pitch. People who swear all week every week are not going to stop just because  they are running around a field, it's in their DNA, it will never be controlled regardless of who does what.

Rubbish! Self control is not a genetic issue (except to the extent that swearing indicates low intelligence). Try the carrot and stick approach; offer each player a tenner for not swearing throughout the match, you get little or no swearing. Guarantee a red card and fine, again you'll get little or no swearing. Give no incentive or punishment and the players will let their inner thug out to play. So swearing can and should be controlled either by the individual (unlikely) or externally by the clubs and/or officials. It is apathy from the F.A.'s at all levels. No part played by deoxyribonucleic acid!

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5 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Rubbish! Self control is not a genetic issue (except to the extent that swearing indicates low intelligence). Try the carrot and stick approach; offer each player a tenner for not swearing throughout the match, you get little or no swearing. Guarantee a red card and fine, again you'll get little or no swearing. Give no incentive or punishment and the players will let their inner thug out to play. So swearing can and should be controlled either by the individual (unlikely) or externally by the clubs and/or officials. It is apathy from the F.A.'s at all levels. No part played by deoxyribonucleic acid!

Well l was a ref for twenty years and always sent players off for foul and abusive language, never made any difference whatsoever, and as for bribing the players to not swear never heard of anything so stupid. The lack of intelligence comment doesn't stand up either, in my experience the worst players to control were policeman and teachers because they are in control all week and found it difficult to accept that they were not in control on the field of play. Maybe not in their DNA but swearing is ingrained in society nothing to do with intelligence. Swearing in sport will never be stopped as long as it's an accepted part of society.

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If swearing is so ingrained and accepted in society, why is it that we don't hear the majority of public speakers using that sort of language when addressing their audiences.     This of course does not mean that they don't swear, but it does suggest that they have a respect for their audience that stops them from using language that may offend. 
This is where intelligence comes in to play, i.e. having the intelligence and respect for others to acknowledge ( as has been stated by contributers to this thread ) that many people are offended by abuse and desist from bringing their families to a game, resulting from a loss of income both at the gate and in the clubhouse, which longterm will affect all concerned with the game.
People who accept foul language should consider those who don't, and perhaps everyone will benefit including, importantly, the football clubs.

 

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3 hours ago, hoppit said:

Well l was a ref for twenty years and always sent players off for foul and abusive language, never made any difference whatsoever, and as for bribing the players to not swear never heard of anything so stupid. The lack of intelligence comment doesn't stand up either, in my experience the worst players to control were policeman and teachers because they are in control all week and found it difficult to accept that they were not in control on the field of play. Maybe not in their DNA but swearing is ingrained in society nothing to do with intelligence. Swearing in sport will never be stopped as long as it's an accepted part of society.

Red cards will stop it. If a player or players are yellow carded and warned as to future conduct (ie swearing) during the rest of the match, and then red carded if they continue, it will stop during that match. Managers/coaches will not tolerate it continuing for fear of losing more players. If referees are instructed to take a hard line over foul language and apply that ruling, it will stop eventually. We're talking about bad language during a match, not in their private lives. If a match ends up as a five aside game, so be it. It's got to be tried or the situation will never change.

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42 minutes ago, Keith B said:

Red cards will stop it. If a player or players are yellow carded and warned as to future conduct (ie swearing) during the rest of the match, and then red carded if they continue, it will stop during that match. Managers/coaches will not tolerate it continuing for fear of losing more players. If referees are instructed to take a hard line over foul language and apply that ruling, it will stop eventually. We're talking about bad language during a match, not in their private lives. If a match ends up as a five aside game, so be it. It's got to be tried or the situation will never change.

In the match I mentioned above played at Okehampton, the referee involved was Stuart (?) Kane. After he sent the two players off for foul and abusive language, I don't think a player was heard to swear for the rest of that match. Someone may have sworn at himself for delivering a rubbish pass, but that was it. It worked, Mr Kane had proved as good as his word ie, that he would book and send players off for foul and abusive language and he did just that. 

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Some of the issues are also that referees don't always get backed up. Say a referee sends a player or two off for foul and abusive language then that team marks him down which affects his chances of promotion. He's left wondering if doing the right thing will be worth the bother. 

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5 minutes ago, Tommy Matthews said:

Some of the issues are also that referees don't always get backed up. Say a referee sends a player or two off for foul and abusive language then that team marks him down which affects his chances of promotion. He's left wondering if doing the right thing will be worth the bother. 

Sad situation indeed - but I have heard this before. Bravo Mr Kane at the match I saw then, wasn't going to be put off by such fears. Confident in his decision making and prepared to defend his integrity.

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Foul Language is the title of this thread, and although some contributors believe that foul language is accepted and tolerated by society in the modern era, it's blatently obvious  from comments on this forum, that there are a substantial number of football supporters who would like to see at the very least a determined effort to reduce swearing both on and off the pitch.
Are they to be ignored by those in charge of the game. or do they deserve a voice, and the respect that the  authorities make such a fuss about.
As I said earlier, you can't cherry pick which rules to enforce, or for that matter who to enforce them on.

1 minute ago, hoppit said:

Points deduction may be the answer, but only if the red card is for foul language.

I will add to that a 10 minute sin bin, and then a red card if it continues.  Team mates will soon get tired of being a man short.

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Saying swearing is part of modern life is no excuse.  If i was to pass someone on the street and start swearing at them in an aggressive manner i would be in trouble with the law, and numerous people would probably intervene and it would be frowned upon.  Yet do it at a football match, which some clubs are trying to encourage families to attend, its shrugged off, as part of the game.

The ironic thing is if, on this football forum, i type a post or reply to someone and start calling then a stupid f**k**g c***, i would have my post removed and possibly banned from the site!

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36 minutes ago, quiksilver said:

stupid f**k**g c***, i would have my post removed and possibly banned from the site!

For the record - the suggested words might be removed but initially no ban would be imposed! 😎

I personally take this stance, whereas some of my moderator colleagues might differ!

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I think the point is , there is a rule for foul or abusive language in our game. Refs should stick by this as they would for handball or a foul.

If they are not going to action against this, then scrap the rule ?

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On 5/8/2017 at 11:10, TURNIP TED said:

I think the point is , there is a rule for foul or abusive language in our game. Refs should stick by this as they would for handball or a foul.

If they are not going to action against this, then scrap the rule ?

You're right sir. Personally I hope the rule is not scrapped. I suspect though that I may be in a minority, sadly.

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